Re: lynx-dev Re: Lynx 2.8.3.dev5: some little (key) problems.

[Klaus Weide]

On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Frederic L. W. Meunier wrote:

> Klaus Weide <address@hidden> wrote:
> 
> >> Actually the delete key moves to the end of the screen, line by
> >> line.
> >It should be by two lines, not by one line, please check more carefully.
> 
> You're right. Two lines. But something is wrong...
> H)elp O)ptions P)rint G)o M)ain screen Q)uit /=search [delete]=history list
>                                                      |---------------------|

Ok, there is a terminology problem.  What you (and I, usually) call the
'delete key' is not what lynx means with [delete].

The '[delete]' in that line, as well as '<delete>' in the 'K'eymap page,
and an occurrence of 'Delete' in the Users Guide, refer to what you
waould call the backspace key.  The key that most people these days
would call 'delete' is usually referred to as 'Remove'; lynx.cfg has
now
   # Remove (Del) Key: 0x10D
for it.  It used to call it just
   # vt100 Remove Key: 0x10D

AFAIK, the lynx terminology comes from the 'real' VTxxx (and VMS) world,
where there was a real 'Remove' key (labeled as such), and (what we call)
the backspace key was called 'delete key' (usually not labeled as such, it
is just the "<-" key after all, but the name was unambiguous since there
was no separate function key named 'delete'). 

Any confusion introduced since then is the fault of Computer/Keyboard
makers who chose to introduce function keys labeled 'Del' or 'Delete'
when those should have been called 'Remove'... (at least if VTxxx
compatibility/emulation had been a consideration).

Well, so far it's relatively simple (even if not completely historically
correct :)).  Lynx still adheres (for the most part) to the 'old'
terminology, while keyboards don't.

If anyone volunteers to attempt to bring lynx into line with the
current usual terminology, he/she should consider the places mentioned
above (also check: keystroke_help.html, Line Editor help pages), not
just do one change in an isolated place.

But with multiple levels of (re-)mapping keys (terminfo, xterm, X
server resources, xmodmap...), there are now also multiple ways to
screw things up further (usually in an attempt to 'fix' things).
Example follow:

> >I am quite sure that you have a TERM variable set - whether by you
> >explicitly or by rxvt automatically.  So let us know what it is.
> 
> Yes, rxvt set's it to xterm by default. I haven't changed.
> 
> >Check what bytes those two keys actually send.
> >The absolute simplest way: in bash, type ^V, then the key in question.
> >You will see something like ^H or ^? or ^[[3~.
> 
> delete: ^[[3~
> backspace: ^?

That's "reasonable behavior"  (although not the only one possible).
But it is in conflict with what 'infocmp -L' says (which just displays
what's in the terminfo file, in this case for 'xterm'):

> >Compare that to what the terminfo for you $TERM says:
> >Do  infocmp -L
> >and look for:
> >key_backspace
> >key_dc
> 
> key_backspace=^H, 

No wonder things go wrong if you use a terminfo file that tells programs
to expect something else for the backspace key than what the backspace
key really sends.

> key_beg=\EOE, key_c1=\EOF,

may be inconsistent as well, but that goes beyond the current topic.

> No key_dc

You are not telling programs about your 'delete character' key (aka.
in old terminology 'Remove', in the usual current terminology 'delete').

Now I don't know if and how these specific mismatches cause the specific
behavior you report.  Since these things don't match, other keys likely
also don't match, and your behavior may be cause by one of those other
mismatches.  Besides, I lost track of which lynx version you are talking
about (you didn't take care to remind me), and (a) <=2.8.3dev.3,
(b) ==2.8.3dev.4, and (c) >=2.8.3dev.5 are three different cases that
can be expected to behave differently in some situations.

> I use a br-abnt2 keyboard with the xmodmap provided by the program xkeycaps 
> and I have the following:
> keycode 0x16 =  BackSpace
> keycode 0x6B =  Delete

I don't know what these things mean; I suppose I could try to find out, but
I don't want to get down to that level.  However you managed to do it,
you are using a terminal description that doesn't actually describe the
behavior of the (emulated) terminal (or window).

> Oh, now I get ~ using the delete key with an rxvt and the backspace key act
> as delete. It worked fine with my last rxvt (at least the delete key...).
> It's not a problem with Lynx. I wasn't using the same rxvt with 2.8.2.rel1.

Now you have me completely confused (as well as yourself it seems),
about what you were/are comparing to what.  You have to keep better
track of 'details' like this if you expect any useful help.

   Klaus