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Re: [palito-dev] repair/resources


From: Gabriel Blum
Subject: Re: [palito-dev] repair/resources
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 17:12:36 -0300

May I comment this stuff ? ;-D

One time barrett said he would like my ideas, so here are some:

> the barrett's approach
>     barrett were uneasy with the way a unit would use
>     the values of energy and metal it were used on
>     its build to allow it to have its hitpoints repaired.

hitpoints? What are they? A definition is necessary.
After a little thought, I'll give one: hitpoints == build_energy +
build_metal; That is, the cost of building the unit, summing up metal and
energy; Or generically, summing all resource costs

This looks consistent in various aspects; It's better than an arbitrary
number. Also, it ties the game rules, so the unit developer can't go crazy
and make a cheap unit undistructible.

I don't defend using hitpoints, neither I'm against it. I don't know. I'm
just defining for the sake of it

>     his initial idea were that the repairer would give
>     N% of the energy necessary to build the unit to repair
>     N% of the hitpoints, but the unit is composed of metal
>     either.

it there are n resources (R1, R2, ..., RN)  that are the costs to build the
units, then at every hit or every repair turn, deduce/add Ri% of each
resource to the unit, proporcional to each resource costs;

remark: this isn't realistic, because damage isn't homogeneous.

>     to repair a wall would be instantaneous in this case.

Looks like TA made wreckages almost undestructible. They probably made metal
resist damage a lot; More on this later

>     how to measure the metal expend and the energy expend
>     on damage, therefore, necessary to repair?

This is easy. You repair just like you build [maybe with 10% extra cost?].
You build(nanolate) each game cycle proporcionally to each resource cost on
the total cost.

> how much metal
>     stays when the unit is wrecked?

When the units 'dies'  [ todo: define 'die' ] , the wreckage can be made of
whatever resources are left at the unit;

> how much a unit explodes when damaged badly, and there least a wreckage in
this case?

If damage taken largely exceeds 'die' threshold.
[ largely: let's say 3 times damage left; Exemple: if there is 20 energy
left, and the unit takes 60 damage, it explodes. Otherwise dies quietly ];

> no hitpoints
>     i figured that the hitpoints were a conflicting information
>     with what we already had: metal and energy.

That's why I propose a formulae for hitpoints; Tough I don't know if using
hitpoints is necessary;

>     then i tried to define something that would create some ties
>     on the whole world structure and the use of the resources.

nice idea

> the problems of what i did:
>     * the unit designer must figure the energy/metal expent on
>     construction to fit the his ideas of resistance and action.

'resistence and action' are concepts I'm don't know.

>     * there is no support to more than 2 resources types,
>     this method is strongly tied to the energy/metal duality.

    I see no problem to make metal and energy have special behavior.

>     (but barrett already gave up on the N-resource approach)

    But shouldn't, because the game is open and somebody else might think of
it, so it would be nice to generalize as far as possible

>
> metal as an armor

[ lets first assume that all shots deal 'damage' that is dimensionless ]

On this whole issue of armoring I propose each resource type to have a
damage_factor; Damage factor would be how much 'damage' the shots damage a
unit;
So, if energy_damage_factor = 1, then a 10 damage shot can damage(reduce) 10
points of energy of the enemy;
if metal_damage_factor = 10, then a 10 damage shot can damage (reduce) 1
point of energy of the enemy;

This works for more resource types, also standardized all damage across the
world, so no crazy stuff from unit designers are possible;

This way, you can make a 50 metal wall resist 500 points of damage;

How to make the tank be destroyed first? You don't want this! The tank
should probably last longer than a wall, because the tank moves, takes
orders, shoots; It isn't realistic to make a wall almost undestructible like
that in total annihilation;

> 2 new concepts

DEFINING 'DIE' AND GENERALIZING THE RESOURCES

That's my final idea on how I, Gabriel "brainman" Blum, would create palito
if it were my game :D

Every resource type would have a standard behavior when it reaches 0 on a
unit;
I propose
energy 0 -> unit disabled, full stop, no control. (still can receive damage)
metal 0 -> lost his physical constitution, unit destroyed, explode/melt;
Can't be repaired, leaves no wreckage, because there is no structure to
contain the resources

-- other ideas for an N resource type variation
people 0 -> if one creates a totala with living person inside the units,
when people = 0 means the operator is dead, so unit needs for people to
receive further orders. It  The unit should be 'repaired', meaning that more
people should be added to the unit, so it can receive orders
morale 0 -> if one units morale reaches 0, the unit still working, but
outside your control. You'll need to send a 'repair' unit to increase crew
morale
ammo 0 -> unit weapons disabled until 'repair' operation gives ammo to unit

ON 'DAMAGE' AND 'TAKING DAMAGE'

I think damage can for simplicity stay a dimensionless number. That means
damage is damage, not armor damage (armor piercing) or energy damage
(eletrical damage), or people damage(bio weapons) or morale damage (psionic
warfare). That would be VERY COOL, but is a complexity that can be added
later;

Right now, I think if a shot deals 110 damage, than the unit should receive
110 damage and it will be spread across energy_damage and metal_damage this
way:

damage = total damage to be taken
total_damage_factor = energy_damage_factor (1) + metal_damage_factor(10)
//like I described above
unit.energy_damage += damage * energy_damage_factor/total_damage_factor +
random; // unit would take 100 damage to energy
unit.metal_damage += damage * metal_damage_factor/total_damage_factor +
random; // unit would take 10 damage to metal
Remark : I'm not making ARMOR, I'm just applying damage; To create a ARMOR
effect, you need to reduce damage before applying it to the unit. That would
be something like

unit.metal_cost = total metal that it takes to build the unit
unit.metal_damage = total damage taken to metal part of the unit (his
structure)
thus defining armor % = unit.metal_damage/unit.metal_cost
starting with 100% and going down to 0;

Reducing damage taken:
Suppose a perfect armor reduces damage taken by half;  So 1/2 is the
armor_efficiency;
The formulae is

damage = damage * armor * armor_eficciency;

So, at first hit, armor at 100%, unit takes half damage; Some damage will go
to energy, other to the armor itself. At second hit, units get more damage
to armor. In a non-linear way. Nice, isn't ?

Like zed says, this is like quake, works fine and I think it's how it should
work;

GENERALIZING FOR OTHER DAMAGE TYPES:

Easy: create damage_energy, damage_metal, damage_people, you got the
picture, and apply the above to each one; Create one type of armor for each
type of resource. That allows infinite game variability !
----------------------------------------------------------

That's my ideas, feel free to use

Regards,
Gabriel
address@hidden





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