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[Bug-gnubg] Re: 0-ply cube


From: Joseph Heled
Subject: [Bug-gnubg] Re: 0-ply cube
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 08:53:21 +1200
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2) Gecko/20021202

I don't have a gammonline account. Can I see some of the positions please?

-Joseph




Albert Silver wrote:
Hi,
I'm sending this via direct e-mail as opposed to the GNU mailing list
because the post is in HTML and I'm not sure whether the mailing list
would preserve this in a readable format. Michael Depreli posted the
following in GoL regarding some very strange GNU behaviour in 0-ply cube
decisions which I am sending to you.
Albert
Examples Of GNU 0-ply cube oddness.

Posted By: Michael Depreli <address@hidden>
Date: Saturday, 7 June 2003, at 3:07 a.m. Here's some evidence that GNU 0 ply cube is unreliable for Double/No
Double decisions.
These were the first three double/no double decisions from one of the
money sessions between SW and GNU and nearly all the others I looked at
suffer from the same peculiarities. I haven't shown the positions
because they are not relevant.
Notice the No/Double & Double/Take equities are always identical and in
fact GNU never doubles
regardless of whether it's an optional double or not. S4's 1ply (GNU 0
ply Equiv) is shown in red.

Cube decision

0-ply cubeless equity
+0.509
0.635 0.297 0.014 - 0.365 0.070 0.001

Cubeful equities:

1.
No double
+0.770
2.
Double, pass
+1.000
+0.230

3.
Double, take
+0.770
+0.000

Proper cube action:
Optional double, take
SW4: 0.687/0.774
Cube decision

2-ply cubeless equity
+0.514
0.634 0.304 0.019 - 0.366 0.075 0.002

Cubeful equities:

1.
Double, take
+0.780
2.
Double, pass
+1.000
+0.220

3.
No double
+0.634
-0.146

Proper cube action:
Double, take
SW4: 0.683/0.784


Cube decision

0-ply cubeless equity
+0.535
0.669 0.266 0.009 - 0.331 0.076 0.001

Cubeful equities:

1.
No double
+0.846
2.
Double, pass
+1.000
+0.154

3.
Double, take
+0.846
+0.000

Proper cube action:
Optional double, take
 SW4: 0.738/0.853

Cube decision

2-ply cubeless equity
+0.548
0.674 0.263 0.010 - 0.326 0.071 0.001

Cubeful equities:

1.
Double, take
+0.874
2.
Double, pass
+1.000
+0.126

3.
No double
+0.794
-0.080

Proper cube action:
Double, take
 SW4: 0.792/0.882


Cube decision

0-ply cubeless equity
+0.599
0.654 0.340 0.026 - 0.346 0.074 0.002

Cubeful equities:

1.
No double
+0.962
2.
Double, pass
+1.000
+0.038

3.
Double, take
+0.962
-0.000

Proper cube action:
No double, take (0.0%)
 SW4: 0.667/0.741

Cube decision

2-ply cubeless equity
+0.550
0.636 0.338 0.027 - 0.364 0.083 0.003

Cubeful equities:

1.
Double, take
+0.853
2.
Double, pass
+1.000
+0.147

3.
No double
+0.761
-0.093

Proper cube action:
Double, take
 SW4: 0.692/0.721
Re: Examples Of GNU 0-ply cube oddness.

Posted By: Ilia Guzei <address@hidden>
Date: Saturday, 7 June 2003, at 3:32 a.m. In Response To: Examples
<http://www.gammonline.com/members/board/config.cgi?read=54891> Of GNU
0-ply cube oddness. (Michael Depreli) Michael, I am not sure how much trust one can put into the cube evaluations at
low plies. Often S4 doubles at its 2-ply level but reverses the decision
at the 3-ply level by a significant margin. The 1-ply level is probably
even less reliable. Also note how different the equities reported by Snowie and GNUBG are. I
still wonder why the two bots produces equity differences of such
magnitude. Ilia
Re: Examples Of GNU 0-ply cube oddness.

Posted By: Michael Depreli <address@hidden>
Date: Saturday, 7 June 2003, at 6:15 a.m. In Response To: Re: Examples
<http://www.gammonline.com/members/board/config.cgi?read=54892> Of GNU
0-ply cube oddness. (Ilia Guzei) I'm already on record as stating I would never use GNU 0-ply or SW 1-ply for evaluating cube decisions. I posted these example because I still see rollouts posted here using 0-ply cube which I really don't trust. To be honest I don't actually know the overall effect it has on rollouts
but it can't be good when these positions show GNU 0-ply refuses to
double! Sure S4 changes it's decision from 2 to 3 ply because it's another ply of accuracy with sound mathematical doubling formulae behind it. My guess is S4 1-ply uses a simplistic cubeless to cubeful conversion
and bases it's decision around some borderline level, which although not
good enough for serious stundents IMHO at least looks more sensible than
GNU's attempt. I guess if you analaysed a huge number of cube decisions you could come
up with a cubeless equity which would average out being borderline for
double/no double decsion. Maybe even some of Janowski's formula could
improve on this method. Michael





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