Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things...

[Gregory Casamento]

Doc,

You wanted evidence that leadership is open to discussion. Consider it open for discussion.  I have said many times in the past that we are willing to listen to anything that can improve this project as a whole.  I don't think any good ideas are being rejected from the get go.  I think what Ivan is trying to say is the same thing that I have discovered and that is that best way to do anything in an open source project is to do it and see what happens.  

I would very much like to capitalize on the popularity of UIKit, the problem has only been one of time for me personally.  We can use all the help we can get on GNUstep.   I and others welcome any contributions you are able to provide or help us to achieve.

Thanks, Greg

On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Doc O'Leary <droleary@7usenet2013.subsume.com> wrote:

In article <mailman.9608.1387390854.10748.discuss-gnustep@gnu.org>,

 Ivan Vuãica <ivucica@gmail.com> wrote:

> Doc,
>
> I would certainly love GNUstep to capitalise on popularity of UIKit.
>
> Please contribute your implementation of all required technologies.

Ivan,

I would certainly love GNUstep to capitalize on my technical abilities.

Please contribute your evidence that the leadership is receptive to such
efforts.

Because what I see is juvenile dismissals of even the most minor
suggestions for web site updates.

> Please contribute more code and less words.

My experience with projects, paid and unpaid, is that crapping out code
is wasted effort unless the "words" have set people in the right
direction.  I can't help it if my words are not what you want to hear,
but my approach is reality-based and you ignore reality at your own
expense.

> Please contribute more documentation and tutorials and less rants.

Please give me reason to believe that such things will actually be used
rather than discarded into the bitbucket.  You'll find I rant less when
the GNUstep community decides it is open to actually discussing its
mission statement.

> Because I can rant all day, as people who were at Cambridge dev meeting
> 2013 can attest to. That has only limited impact.

And that is the heart of the problem.  You shouldn't *have* to rant.
Neither should I.  If good ideas are being rejected from the get-go, I'm
going to go where they're appreciated *first* before I implement them.
Most smart people would do the same.

> Code that does not damage
> existing ecosystem and instead advances it and expands the ecosystem has
> real impact.
>
> And if you can't code, pay someone who can.

I was coding before you were born.  My first release of GNUstep-based
software (agentd) was in 1996.  But go ahead and presume you can tell me
what's what.

And this is the saddest part of what remains of the GNUstep community.
You'd rather start a fight than take a step back and figure out what is
wrong and how to make it right.  You dredge up a long-dead post not to
say "Yeah, let's make some major changes!", but to hunker down and
justify why such issues are killed before they are fixed.

So, like I have said from the beginning, if the leadership actually
wants to *discuss* a roadmap that brings GNUstep forward to where the
greater ObjC/Cocoa community is in 2013, I'm all for that.  If they're
just going to be hostile and pretend that *I* am the problem, my
contributions will remain minimal.

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Gregory Casamento
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