Re: A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master))

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 02.10.2021 05:05, João Távora wrote:
> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:
>
> > Whatever search feature we end up implementing, should work on Elisp
> > code anywhere, inside or outside of Emacs core.
>
> Yes.  xref-find-references is that feature for me.
>
> But my understanding is that you were somehow suggesting another,
> simpler method of having grep search by only the suffix.  Which is a
> good idea, but -- as always -- needs some assumptions in the code.

Assumptions that most languages with module/namespace systems satisfy.

> I'm just saying we shouldn't _force_ any code to be constrained to such
> assumptions.  But if _some code_ happens to want to be constrained by
> those assumption, then your idea is valuable and should exist alongside
> xref-find-references.

Yes, I was saying the opposite.

> > I think the "private" symbols are largely irrelevant to this
> > discussion. Unless people really are (?) going to use shorthands for
> > them.
>
> I would.  In fact, I would use them _prominently_ for private symbols,
> which are the vast majority of symbols I write and precisely where I
> feel most pain.  eglot--this, eglot--that, eglot-test--foo.  For
> definitions of external symbols, like '(defun eglot-super-important-bit
> () )' I would _not_ use them, precisely to safeguard answering some
> basic questions with "grep".

That makes sense. But if the goal of shorthands was to shorten internal 
symbols only, it would probably looked a little different.

And anyway, if multiple packages have internal symbols with the same 
local name, the search for is likely to require the same approach and 
hence the same limitations. Unless we're really going to prohibit 
packages from using "private" functions from other packages (thus being 
able to limit the search to the current file). Which is a frowned-upon 
but common practice.

> That would be "my rule", at least a draft version of it.  But also, like
> probably most people passionately discussing this feature, I too haven't
> really had time to even play around with it (I spend my Emacs hack
> budget writing e-mails ;-) ).

Hah. ;-(

> > Tools like ack-el indeed use thingatpt, though I wonder whether we
> > should add a new "thing" rather than change how 'symbol' works. That
> > is, consider whether any of the existing users might not like this
> > change.
>
> Yes, I also think we should add a new "thing".  For your "grep-by-parts"
> idea, I mean, I hope that's understood.  For xref-find-references, the
> 'symbol' is the thing.

And then we encounter the question, what is a 'symbol', really.

Either way, yes, these are two distinct usage examples with different 
answers to that question.