Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib?

[Bob Rogers]

   From: Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org>
   Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2023 21:32:15 +0100

   Bob Rogers wrote:

   >> So let's hear it then, what is it that sets Emacs 18 Elisp
   >> apart from Emacs 30 Elisp . . .
   >
   > Briefly, it's now a much larger language . . .
   >
   >> and how is the Emacs 30 Elisp less coherent than the Emacs
   >> 18 Elisp?
   >
   > . . . and the additions have come from diverse sources . . .

   I understand that it has expanded in size, this is the nature
   of technology systems in general and perhaps even more so with
   Lisp programming, since it is so easy and fun to do.

But, just to point out the obvious, Emacs Lisp is unusual in that the
language and the application are inseparable.  In other language systems
(e.g. Python, Perl) the language, the application, and packages used to
build the application (even when distributed as part of the language)
are all distinct; in Emacs the boundaries are much fuzzier, undoubtedly
another consequence of Lisp.

   But I am still uncertain how this has changed the style and
   reduced the coherence of Elisp.

I'm sorry I'm apparently unable to be more concrete about explaining my
impressions.  Part of this is due to the elapsed time.  ISTR that, when
I started reading Elisp in the mid-90's, it had a "retro" feel compared
to the other Lisps I was using.  As time went on, I've had to hit C-h f
more and more to understand what was going on, not only for language
features (pcase has been mentioned), but for editing features like
indirect buffers and overlays as they were added -- not strictly part of
the language, but again, where's do you draw the boundary?  (I've also
had to read more C code to follow what's going on, but that's a separate
issue.)

   Case in point, I don't see any such difference when I look at
   cl-lib.el?

   -- 
   underground experts united
   https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Between cl-lib.el and what?

                                        -- Bob