Re: [Fsfe-uk] [Fwd: [Fsuk-manchester] Richard Stallman talk - Manchester (1st May)]

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 11:52 +0100, Dave Crossland wrote:
> On 18/04/2008, Ian Lynch <address@hidden> wrote:
> >
> >  > But what I mean is, when I visit www.theINGOTs.org I can't learn what
> >  > certificates the directors of the company have, or what grades they
> >  > got in school.
> >
> > Can you do this with AQA, Edexcel or the BCS sites?
> > ...
> > I think that the fact I have a Masters in Education management is rather
> > taken for granted when national governments give their approval.
> 
> I feel these facts reinforce my point: The certificates and the grades
> we vie for in school and universiry are not important in life.

Tell that to a child that needs 5 GCSEs to get to college. Or an
unqualified doctor that needs a job.

> To be clear: I'm not criticising you or your work per se, I think it
> is excellent and important and I'm very glad to hear you are doing it,
> but goes with the grain of the school/college establishment and I'm
> not sure about the whole thing.

Fight battles you can win. I have a lot of reservations about how we do
education but in the end I can only realistically change so much.

> I'm talking more generally about the value of things that go against
> the grain of the school system, which are underestimated because they
> are not quantifiable by experts, but are what really matter in the
> economy.

Like Emotional Intelligence, ethics etc? In fact the INGOTs make sure
that some of these do get at least some value since we don't just assess
knowledge and skills but attitudes and ability to work with others.

> >  > It would be better for people to learn what the directors of companies
> >  > know which do make people visit their companies' websites and turn
> >  > into paying customers.
> >
> > Do you mean directors of our company or companies in general?
> 
> Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest directors would take INGOTs. I mean,
> no one buys from a company because of what grades the directors have,
> and it is generally impossible to find out that information.

However in most cases Directors of companies are graduates because the
system requires that as a basic pre-requisite. Well I guess some might
forge their qualifications. Its hard to do that with INGOTs because they
can be verified directly on-line by anyone.

> I'm just skeptical of the National Curriculum and things like it; I
> don't think it teaches the way people learn, nor is it designed to.

here is actually a lot of flexibility in how the NC can be taught.
Mostly the limitation is teachers teaching how they were taught because
it made them successful. Of course over-domination of academic exams is
a problem but if you can't beat 'em join 'em. Why do we bother teaching
handwriting - to do school exams. C'est la vie.

> What would I replace it with?
> 
> "it's no big secret how children become educated, it happens by
> exposing them intensely to history, philosophy, literature, art,
> theology, science, and politics; it happens by exposing them to
> association with competent people, by vesting real responsibility in
> them, and by a wide variety of primary experiences."
> - 
> http://www.homeschoolnewslink.com/homeschool/columnists/gatto/Gatto_v5i4.shtml

Learning happens when individuals are motivated and have access to
things to learn. Simple really. The problem is that different people are
motivated by different things and we tend to assume what motivates us
motivates everyone else. Different people have different natural
abilities to access learning eg through literacy, numeracy, physical
prowess, social context etc. Then there is access to information and
more experienced people. Schools are an attempt to level that playing
field. Unsurprisingly they are not 100% successful. The internet could
make schools obsolete but not for a few years because social systems are
far slower to change than technology.

> > once we have UK
> > government accreditation and some traction here it is far easier to get
> > into other countries.
> 
> Great :-) I hope you can get free software in to the curriculum of all
> schools! :-)

That is the idea. What matters is the outcome. Machiavelli wasn't all
bad ;-)

Ian
-- 
New QCA Accredited IT Qualifications
www.theINGOTs.org

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