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Re: [gNewSense-users] newcomer's greetings

From: fchoong
Subject: Re: [gNewSense-users] newcomer's greetings
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:09:04 +0900 (JST)
User-agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2

Ubuntu already does most of the "convenient" stuff, so there is no need
for another "convenient" GNU/Linux distribution. What is need now is the
truly Free distribution. I guess Tryggvi has got the point already, so we
can go easy on the newcomer ;)

David Fu
firecat server-side javascript webserver

> Tryggvi Bj�gvinsson wrote:
>> Don't get me wrong. I was not trying to make any excuses.
> I think we are miscommunicating and it is you who are getting me
> wrong.  I grasped your point completely, IMHO.
>> I am grateful that everyone has the possibility of using a
>> completely free operating system. But, IMO freedom should not be
>> restricting.
> Recently Ciaran O'Riordan posted a link to transcript he made of RMS's
> speech in Zagreb last year.  To cite by memory:
> "To be able to choose between proprietary programs is to be able to
> choose your master.  Freedom means having no master."
> I can't think of a way how software freedom can be restricting.  It
> restricts the others from restricting the rest of the society (well,
> if it is copylefted); that's deliberate and a good thing.
>> I don't mind people using non-free alternatives if there aren't any
>> free ones.
> Well, I do mind just as I do mind selling your daughter in slavery
> or intentionally crippling your son so that he gan beg more
> successfully on the streets (this still happens in some parts of the
> world).  But using free or non-free software is a choice that everyone
> makes for himself.
>> However, restricting people from using Adobe's Flash because Gnash isn't
>> ready is wrong (in my opinion).
> I really don't understand what you mean by that.  I am not controlling
> your computer, nor I have even the slightest desire to do so, so how
> am I restricting you?  You can always install it if you want.  Of
> course, if a person uses it, I know what his values are.  This is sad.
> I don't use Flash even at work, where 99% of the pages I have to visit
> are entirely Flash based.  My boss haven't fired me yet, and I'm still
> using computers all of the time.
>> I was only trying to point out that before _all_ parts are free, I
>> think people should be able to use non-free software (by using some
>> other distro than gNewSense), until the free alternatives are ready.
> If you apply this way of thinking, we wouldn't have all the free
> software that we have now.  If people consider using non-free software
> as an acceptable thing (when there is no free alternative), such an
> alternative is unlikely to be ever developed.  The "free alternative"
> thing goes even further, as Linus Torvalds for example claimed that
> there was no free alternative to BitKeeper and encouraged people to
> use it for Linux development.
>> Sadly, I don't think many value their freedom more the newest cool
>> proprietary gadget or piece of software. I would like to show them that
>> freedom is better, but without saying: "Look at how much better it is!
>> Btw, you'd have to get rid of your ipod, and flash, and graphics card,
>> and wireless card, and your game-console, and etc."
> Educating people about software freedom is the most important thing.
> You have to practice what you preach, otherwise there is no effect and
> in fact you might become ridiculous in the eyes of the others.  It's
> freedom or death, there is no "middle" situation.
>> Here in Iceland, proprietary products have a stronghold on almost
>> everything.
> Here in Bulgaria, proprietary software have a stronghold on absolutely
> everything.
>> The ministry of education has even made a deal with Microsoft.
> Our government has made a mutlimillion deal with Microsoft, which was
> prolonged for another 3 years recently.  All our ministries,
> government agencies, etc. use proprietary software and force the
> citizen to use it if she wants to communicate by electronic means.
> This is totally unacceptable.
>> We've come a long way and enabled those who value their freedom to use a
>> completely free operating system. But I do believe we have another long
>> way to go in educating the rest about why it is so valuable. I think it
>> can be done by either allowing them to use proprietary products for the
>> time being or (verbally) attacking the corporations and force them to
>> free their software. Both actions are being taken, but I hope the latter
>> will pay off.
> As I said, if you accept non-free software as a legitimate and morally
> justified thing, even temporarily, the battle is lost in advance.
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