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Re: [gnugo-devel] Three stone games
From: |
Morten Gulbrandsen |
Subject: |
Re: [gnugo-devel] Three stone games |
Date: |
Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:56:48 +0200 |
Arend Bayer wrote:
>
> Hi Morten,
>
> you wrote:
> > In 9 x 9 Go I believe we could get something like :
> > Black wins 70.00%
> > White wins 25.00%
> > Tie 5.00%
> > 100.00%
> > without komi offset.
> > And this I'd like to investigate. When we know the numbers for 9 x 9,
> > then we
> > can investigate if this is true for 19 x 19.
> There some statistics about winning probabilities in even games between
> players of different ranks at the web site of the EGF ratings:
>
> http://egf.posluh.hr/rating/gor.html
>
> This might not be exactly what you are looking for, but it is s.th. similar
> and interesting.
>
> > I'd like to do this, if it is helpful for you. gnugo versus gnugo, and
> > gnugo versus Morten Gulbrandsen. I only play as 13 kyu, so it could be
> > an even match.
> We would certainly be interested to hear how you compete against GNU Go,
> on different board sizes. GNU Go vs GNU Go might also be interesting.
>
> > I also find it very difficult to understand, why gnugo does not increase
> > its strength
> > with computing speed? If gnugo plays against itself with different time
> > limits,
> > then how many minutes will it need to play 1 kyu stronger ?
> The strength does increase with more computing speed, but the increase
> will get slower and slower. Strength of chess programs (measured in ELO)
> increases linearly with each duplication of computing power. This is,
> as far as I know, not true for any Go program.
=============================================================
I have some comments on that, branche and bounce, alpha beta algorithm,
speedup, According to the book:
"Parallell computing, theory and practice"
by Quinn , the maximum expected Speedup is typically 5 or 6.
The book also has some notes about Amdahls law and superlinear speedup.
===================================================================
>
> Speaking about GNU Go, there are simply mistakes that GNU Go, in its
> current design, would make with any time possibly used. E.g. it makes
> connection mistakes, because there a dynamic connection analysis is not
> yet fully implemented.
>
> In fact, I would find it quite interesting to know how much GNU Go's
> strength depends on the time spent. Especially, at the moment, I would
> like to know whether it would be worth adding better support for higher
> levels than 10.
> With the program "twogmp" (included in the GNU Go download, in the directory
> interface/gtp_examples) you can do this very comfortably. E.g. you could
> try to run
>
> twogmp --black '../gnugo --quiet --mode gtp' \
> --white '../gnugo --level 11 --quiet --mode gtp' \
> --handicap 1 --games 20
> (This will run 20 games without komi, black GNU Go at level 10, and white
> GNU Go at level 10.)
> (Of course, you can also similarly run one game at a time from cgoban.)
>
===============================================================================
address@hidden:/tmp/twogmp$ ls -l
total 148
-rw-r--r-- 1 morten morten 165 Jan 5 2000 Makefile
-rw-r--r-- 1 morten morten 21455 Oct 24 1999 gmp.c
-rw-r--r-- 1 morten morten 3977 Oct 23 1999 gmp.h
-rw-r--r-- 1 morten morten 37852 Mar 31 20:17 gmp.o
-rwxr-xr-x 1 morten morten 48137 Mar 31 20:17 twogmp
-rw-r--r-- 1 morten morten 4194 Oct 27 1999 twogmp.c
-rw-r--r-- 1 morten morten 19512 Mar 31 20:17 twogmp.o
address@hidden:/tmp/twogmp$
I could compile twogmp
address@hidden:~$ ls -l twogmp
-rwxr-xr-x 1 morten morten 48137 Mar 31 20:20 twogmp
and safely copy it to my home directory
address@hidden:~$ ./twogmp --black '../gnugo --quiet --mode gtp'
--white '../gnugo --level 11 --quiet --mode gtp' --handicap 1
--games 20
./twogmp: invalid option -- -
./twogmp: invalid option -- -
./twogmp: invalid option -- -
./twogmp: invalid option -- -
./twogmp: invalid option -- g
./twogmp: invalid option -- a
./twogmp: invalid option -- m
./twogmp: invalid option -- e
address@hidden:~$ black : lack
white : hite
black_output:
white_output:
size : 20
handicap : 0
So what can I do now ?
Yours Sincerely
Morten Gulbrandsen
gnugo runs well, perhaps I have an old version ?
address@hidden:~$ gnugo -v
GNU Go Version 3.0.0
address@hidden:~$
address@hidden:~$ which gnugo
/usr/local/bin/gnugo
address@hidden:~$ whereis gnugo
gnugo: /usr/games/gnugo /usr/local/bin/gnugo
address@hidden:~$
now I can go on helping you, testing many games and doing some
statistics.
===============================================================================
> It would be interesting to know the results such a series, and the time
> needed by black and white.
>
> I will report the result of a similar match later, where I let one
> version play with --owl-threats (which does more reading in some
> situations, needing more time).
>
> Arend
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnugo-devel mailing list
> address@hidden
> http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnugo-devel
- [gnugo-devel] Three stone games, bump, 2002/03/29
- Re: [gnugo-devel] Three stone games, Arend Bayer, 2002/03/29
- Re: [gnugo-devel] Three stone games, Morten Gulbrandsen, 2002/03/31
- Re: [gnugo-devel] Three stone games, Trevor Morris, 2002/03/31
- Re: [gnugo-devel] Three stone games, Arend Bayer, 2002/03/31
- Re: [gnugo-devel] Three stone games,
Morten Gulbrandsen <=
- Re: [gnugo-devel] Three stone games, Morten Gulbrandsen, 2002/03/31
- Re: [gnugo-devel] Three stone games, Daniel Bump, 2002/03/31
- Re: [gnugo-devel] Three stone games, Morten Gulbrandsen, 2002/03/31
- Re: [gnugo-devel] Three stone games, Daniel Bump, 2002/03/31