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Re: association vs job site

From: GNU Herds work team
Subject: Re: association vs job site
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 21:57:47 +0100
User-agent: KMail/1.9.5

Richard Stallman wrote:
>     Maybe, if you agree, will be better state that:
>       "following the GNU Project's policies"
>      will have priority over:
>       "controlled by its users"
>       The Ethics Officer will be appointed by the Free Software
>       Foundation, Inc. to ensure the below points, having veto
>       power over all subject related to such points:
>        * the integrity of the GNU name is not breached
>        * the Association follows the Free Software philosophy and
> Those changes would solve the problem from the FSF's point of view.


> You could run the job site for us and the FSF could be confident
> there is no conflict.
> However, since this would greatly reduce the extent to which the
> organization is controlled by its members, I think people looking for
> an organization which is truly member-controlled would be likely to be
> disappointed.
> I think that you must have had certain aims in mind when you
> wrote down that this association would be controlled by its users,
> and I suspect that the plan as modified in this way won't meet
> all of those aims.

No, it is not a problem for us.

What "controlled by their own user" aims is:
  * be sure member data is taken with care.
  * be able to modify features, obviously
    following the FS philosophy, so the
    name "Free Software Association".

We think such aims does not conflict with the Ethic Officer veto power under 
the conditions we are talking about. Besides, we want to be sure too that the 
association will follow the FS philosophy for ever, so we think it is good, 
and maybe necessary, to have an Ethic Officer with veto power, under the 
conditions we are talking about.

  Modified at:

Some of us want to work under the conditions of the FS philosophy. That is 
because of we are working on this proposal.

> Perhaps what you really want is to have two separate organizations,
> one to run a job site and one to be controlled by its users.

No, we do not want that.  If it is possible, the job site should be controlled 
by its users, but being sure it follows the FS philosophy. Therefore the 
Ethic Officer veto power is OK for us.

The association without the job site, is nothing. Anyway, if you approve only 
the job site and not the association, it will OK for us. We want to set the 
jobsite module on production. We think moving the hosting to the FSF and 
getting your support is the final step.


> Or perhaps you want to have an organization controlled by its users,
> and its name would not include "GNU".  The GNU Herds would be one
> activity of that organization, and that one activity would have an
> FSF-appointed Ethics Officer.

We think that an association controlled by its users, with the exception of 
the Ethic Officer veto power under the conditions we are talking about, is 


We would like to have only one organization, the association, and being hosted 
at the FSF hosts.  If we have to forget the association side and keep only 
the job site for the FSF we will do so. We will do what you want.

If you accept the association part of the project proposal, we will not sign 
any paper if it is not actually needed. We will just state the conditions on 
the webapp and let it run.

Note that GNU Herds, as Free Software Association, has been already announced 
at the comp.os.linux.announce news group. Such announcement was moderated at 
other medias, as for example and the gnu.announce news group. See 
below the text of such announcements. We think there is not any problem on 
modifying the project shape if it must be done.

In any case, we will support the development and maintenance of the project.

> That last rule is too specific for a charter; charters need to be
> written in more general ways.  I suggest this:
>          * that the activities are operated in ways that do not lend
>          themselves to be abused to the detriment of the Free
>          Software philosophy.


If you want only a job site, let us know and we will modify the webapp.

The work team

Text of the announcement posted at the comp.os.linux.announce news group:

  "GNU Herds is a not-for-profit and true-democratic
   association which aims to encourage the professional
   development of Free Software contributors.

   Job Site modules have been developed to take in
   contact professionals and companies interested
   in doing business.

   The management of the Job Site is controlled by its
   own users using the democratic policy.

   Other modules can be developed under the association

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