[Gnumed-devel] Re: [GPCG_TALK] GPs split on software ads

[Tim Churches]

Horst Herb wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:38, Tim Churches wrote:
> 
>>Initial investigations by Brendan Scott, David Guest and myself suggest
>>that it is likely that a properly configured non-profit R&D foundation
>>dedicated to open source health software development would receive
>>approval for tax-deductible status from the ATO.
> 
> My own research suggests that the costs of running a not-for-profit 
> organization in Australia (all fees, levies, duties, mandatory audits etc.) 
> are just atrocious.

Brendan Scott, who is a lawyer who specialises in open source licensing
and related IP issues, seems to think it would be worthwhile, despite
the fees, which are high but not unmanageable for a non-profit
charitable foundation.

> I talked to somebody from Greenpeace and he told me running costs of 
> Greenpeace in Australia due to administrative fees imposed on them by the 
> government are among the highest world wide.

Unless I am mistaken, Greenpeace are not a charity with tax-deductible
status. It may be a non-profit organisation, but that's not the same
thing. I think you'll find that things are not quite so bad for
tax-deductible charitable organisations.

> If we had accountants etc. working pro bono, the compliance costs would still 
> be high (and the amount of paperwork nauseating) but bearable. But who would 
> know an accountant working for gnumed for free?

Some pro-bono professional services would definitely be needed to make
it fly. We already have a lawyer who is will to contribute some time,
either for free or at reduced rates.

>>However, there is still a HUGE amount of work to be done before GnuMed
>>is ready for production use. The GnuMed team is still wrestling with
>>(and iterating over) the design of fundamental aspects of the programme.
>>Version 0.1, with a full working GUI, is yet to be released.
> 
> 
> You forget one minor but important detail: I *am* using gnumed-mini daily in 
> my practice and it does most things. I have taken many shortcuts (almost no 
> documentation in the code, nowhere near as elegantly designed as 
> gnumed-proper), and the database is not properly normalized (and often I 
> still just leech onto the medibase database) but I reckon it is less than 3 
> weeks full time work to make it work for others too 

A question and a comment:

a) Where is the code for gnumed-mini? I (and others, no doubt) would
love to have a look at what you are using in day-to-day use, Horst.

b) The inflation factor between Horst-time and everyone-else-time
appears to be at least one order of magnitude. In other words, if it
would take you an estimated 3 weeks of work to make it work for everyone
else, then it would take anyone else at least ten times that long -
which is approaching my initial estimates for completing Gnumed (not
forgetting the need for professional-looking, well written system nd
end-user documentation etc, test harnesses etc).

I am not being entirely flippant regarding Horst-time, and you have
recently said that there is no more Horst-time to be had, anyway.

> (meaning you can add, view, edit, delete demographic information, add and 
> view 
> simple progress nodes, code diagnoses and associate them with progress notes, 
> record and browse family and social histories and risk factors, record and 
> browse a few observations, import, comment and browse pathology results, and, 
> view and administrate simple recalls, prescribe medication incl. viewing 
> context sensitive reference information, browse medication history. If we 
> integrate Carlos' SOAP editor (currently I am just using a plain text 
> widget), and already existing/working modules like vaccinations and document 
> archival, we have something useful already.
> 
> It needs refining alright, and has lots of aesthetic warts (Richard will 
> cringe and turn green), but I do manage with it in my own practice day to 
> day.

Point us at the code, Horst, and we'll let you know what we think.
Doesn't matter if it is incomplete or unpolished - you won't be
criticised for that - people are just interestd in seeing a practical
working example of Gnumed. And it would also allow independent
assessment of what it would take to bring it to production status to be
made.

Tim C