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Re: [RFC] [PATCH]: Icon themability patch for -GUI images/icons

From: Nicolas Roard
Subject: Re: [RFC] [PATCH]: Icon themability patch for -GUI images/icons
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:35:35 +0000

Le 31 oct. 04, à 20:41, Fred Kiefer a écrit :

Hi Quentin,

Quentin Mathé wrote:
Le 30 oct. 04, à 17:16, Fred Kiefer a écrit :
Sorry, I am actually getting bored of this and most other pseudo-discussions going on in the GNUstep mailing lists. Perhaps I should think about dropping out of them.
Could you explain what you mean here ? … or tell us what are the pseudo-discussions you are talking about ? I would like to know to avoid such position on your side and have more friendly and progressive discussions.

nice of you to ask. I was refering to the fact that we already had a similar discussion on icon themes before and to the discussion on anti-aliased fonts for xlib and to bits of the discussion on the windows backend and ...

Well, the thing is, I think most of the discussions here where people argue produce little results -- in fact, if somebody code one of the options debated, generally this is accepted in the end... so.. if people want something, they just need to DO them. ;-)

You see, with the change I made for AA as the default in xlib most people that will see any difference are now worse off than before. (I explained why in a mail already) Still some argued very hard to get this default setting. I just don't understand them, and to be honest I don't want to understand them any more. This is not about making GNUstep a better environment.

while I'm not even using xlib, I can understand why people want AA by default. Alone it does not make gnustep a better environment, but I understand that it could be seen as a nice touch. Anyway, as long as things are easily modifiable with defaults...

Or the statement in the discussion about what isn't working for the windows backend. Someone, and it may be the same someone, claimed that the pasteboard may not be working. He didn't even state, that it isn't working, which just means that he doesn't really care. But than, why bring up the topic? For me the windows backend hasn't been working for various reasons over the past few months, still I could always tell, what was actually broken and sometimes even how to fix it. BTW, it is still broken for me for all applications which only start a menu and not a window.

hm, I don't know if it was me saying that :-)
But if that's the case, my recent mail about the windows backend was more to encourage people to have a look on it, as it works better than generally assumed (even if things are missing -- and some very annoying ones .. ;-)
I know that if I have the opportunity, I will try to contribute to it.

One basic pattern of these pseudo discussions seems to be that somebody states, that if a single feature would be added to GNUstep, than it would suddenly attract loads of users.

Well, that's generally a dellusion, but it's still true that some of theses features will help attracting users..

Theming is one of these features that pop up from time to time. I am not against themes and theme support in GNUstep.

...and I agree that theming is such a feature. In fact, proper theming is imho anyway necessary for GNUstep if we really aim proper crossplatform (read: blending as much as possible in the host system), regardless of attracting users that want to have yellow-stripped with red plots windows..

GNUstep is already more themable than anyone, to my knowledge, exploits. You may change all the system colours by supplying a different system colour file. You may change most icons, by just editing the nsmapping.strings file. You may change many aspects of controls by overwriting the GSDrawFunctions class in a bundle. None of this ever gets used.

I disagree a little :)
First, some of theses changes were from me, and explicitely to allow easier theming, yes. And you're right that currently, doing a theme on GNUstep is a LOT easier than it used to be -- I know it first hand. But I disagree with you that anyone is using it -- as I am using it :-P In my opinion, it's now fairly easy to write a "programmed" theme on gnustep (which was my first goal). If you want to test a theme like , you can try (just compile it and add it to the default GSAppKitUserBundles array..). Now my goal is to move Camaelon (which was for me more a testcase than a theme) to a proper theme engine, using pixmaps. It's in the work and things should be ready soon, hopefully. I think people don't use the themes "possibilites" of gnustep because they are basically too complex/hidden to the user. I think that a simple pixmap themes engine will fulfill the job in a simpler and better for the average user. The other reason we don't have other "programmed" themes is because, as always, we lack developpers ;-) and in general, "programmed" themes are not that much popular, if I count the number of them on KDE/GNOME compared to the pixmaps one.

It may be that I have been hanging around in this mailing list for to long. The same arguments come up over and over again. And there is so much serious work still untouched....

it's always the same thing: lots of discussion but nothing much happend until someone provide a code. Don't forget we're all volunteers and I guess everybody is doing what he can to improve gnustep. I wish I would do a lot more than the little things I did.

For my own contribution to GNUstep, I am not that much proud on the new features, that I implemented (although there have been a few), but on the cleanup of code I did over the years. Now sometimes I even have the feeling that GNUstep may be degrading again. I know this is not actually true, still I get that feeling.

Nicolas Roard
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
 -Arthur C. Clarke

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