Re: Plans for change....

[Gregory John Casamento]

Yen-Ju,

> I do know Renaissance.
> I use scroll bar as an example only to show
> that there is no way to have everyone agree on everything.
> If GNUstep decide to adapt auto-layout,
> people from Cocoa may start to complain because they use hard-coded position
> and their nib file cannot convert to gorm file.
> If GNUstep support two kind of layouts,
> it just add more burden on developers and may confuse users.
> By the way, I remember GNUstep has something like GSVBox and HBox
> for auto-layout.

If someone wants to use Renaissance for autolayout or to create a set of 
palettes for Gorm and a new library which handles autolayout for both OSX and 
GNUstep (which I suggested in a previous email) then they are free to do that.  
 The GUI classes (NSWindow, NSView, et al) should never implement auto-layout.  
This should, like in Renaissance, be handled by another set of classes.

I, personally, don't see much value in auto-layout, because GNUstep/OPENSTEP 
provides the user with a way to have a GUI for each locale, so that you can 
specifically tailor your GUI to each, but to each his own.

> Personally, I think GNUstep try to please everyone
> and start to lose its personality.
> In the end, no one is completely happy.
> If an application work well, like GNUMail,
> who care about it is auto-layout or not.

This is what I'm trying to correct.  For too long GNUstep has not had well 
defined goals.   I'm trying to give it one: become a really great multiplatform 
development environment.   If someone wants to create a desktop 
(Etiole/GAP/Backbone) and/or an OS (such as the LiveCD) they are free to do 
this, but GNUstep's focus needs to be on it's development environment and API.

Currently, GNUstep has only one real desktop app which comes with it and that 
is GWorkspace.   GWorkspace is not required to be installed to use GNUstep.

Later, GJC
--
Gregory Casamento
## GNUstep Chief Maintainer

----- Original Message ----
From: Yen-Ju Chen <address@hidden>
To: David Wetzel <address@hidden>
Cc: address@hidden
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 5:21:27 PM
Subject: Re: Plans for change....

On 12/17/06, David Wetzel <address@hidden> wrote:
> Yen-Ju Chen wrote:
>
> >   I think this argument falls into the category as the scroll bar
> >   should be on the right or left.
> >   There is no solution to make everyone happy.
>
> Maybe you should read [1].
> It is very simple. Scrollers are always parts of a scrollview. A theme can 
> change the layout.
> This was already possible on slow Amigas so for a true OO environment on much 
> faster machines it
> should be a piece of cake. [2]

I do know Renaissance.
I use scroll bar as an example only to show
that there is no way to have everyone agree on everything.
If GNUstep decide to adapt auto-layout,
people from Cocoa may start to complain because they use hard-coded position
and their nib file cannot convert to gorm file.
If GNUstep support two kind of layouts,
it just add more burden on developers and may confuse users.
By the way, I remember GNUstep has something like GSVBox and HBox
for auto-layout.

Personally, I think GNUstep try to please everyone
and start to lose its personality.
In the end, no one is completely happy.
If an application work well, like GNUMail,
who care about it is auto-layout or not.

Anyway, unless someone plans to write an implementation,
there is no use to argue it further. :P

Yen-Ju

>
>
> [1] http://www.gnustep.it/Renaissance/Screenshots.html
> [2] http://www.sasg.com/mui/features.html
>
> --
>    _  _
>  _(_)(_)_  David Wetzel, Turbocat's Development,
> (_) __ (_) Buchhorster Strasse 23, D-16567 Muehlenbeck/Berlin, FRG,
>   _/  \_   Fax +49 33056 82835 Phone +49 33056 82834
>  (______)  http://www.turbocat.de/
>
>


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