Re: Changes I've been thinking of...

[Sergii Stoian]

On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:06:45 +0300, Markus Hitter <address@hidden> wrote:
> Am 09.10.2009 um 11:27 schrieb Sergii Stoian:
>
> > "World (all stuff outside of GNUstep) acceptance of GNUstep as  
> > alternative developer framework that will help creating of alternative  
> > desktop environment."
>
> Now I can't resist to comment either ;-)
>
> "Platforms" aren't just a set of kernel and appropriate drivers these  
> days, they are full functioning desktops already. So, while an  
> alternative to Xfce / KDE / Gnome might be desireable for some people,  
> the very most open source OS users won't bother on GNUstep applications  
> if they don't fit into their preferred desktop environment.

Markus, why do you think that users of Xfce/KDE/GNOME should bother on
GNUstep applications at all? I guess user first tries to find app that is  
native to
it's DE. Second he looks for neighbor variants. If you want GNUstep apps to
fit into Xfce/KDE/GNOME then you need to change not only look (scrollbars,
menu style, etc.) but also FEEL of applications. Generally speaking,  
GNUstep
application should look and feel as user's preferred desktop application.
Finally it leads to bloating of code and problems with maintenance  
(considering
our developer resources).
Does GNUstep applications should look & feel as Qt and GTK+ apps? This is  
a dead
end for GNUstep project I guess.

> As a Ubuntu user I can seamlessly install (packaged) KDE apps and use  
> them next to Gnome apps. The same should be true for GNUstep apps.
>
> Accordingly, work on e.g. a GNUstep terminal app is pointless, as there  
> are two dozen other terminal apps out there already.

And browsers, file managers, IDEs, mail clients, editors... That's what I'm
trying to say about. There will be no charm in such approach. NS/OS has  
charm
even today I think.

> Strongly preferring WindowMaker is plain counter productive.

Using GNUstep applications in, for example, GNOME is stupid. I see no  
sense in
using 'TextEdit' instead of 'gedit' and so on. Sorry, It's not an argument.
I see WindowMaker as: 1. part of Workspace Manager 2. reference window  
manager
for GNUstep applications.

> Insisting on a own clipboard system will do nothing but confuse users.  
> Those dock-like miniwindows are simply annoying (for Gnome users).  
> Command line stuff is - well many users don't know what a command line  
> is, after all.
>
> Integration with the neighbor's desktop is the state of the art. Even  
> the biggies like KDE or Gnome can't afford to ignore the others.

GNOME and KDE has similar point of view on how desktop should be organized.
NS/OS has different philosophy. It's not only about look&feel.

> Markus
>
>
> P.S.: Currently I'm using Cocotron. Much less matured, but integrates  
> much better. Braindead simple porting from Cocoa, standalone  
> applications !
>
> P.P.S.: Sorry for ranting so much. I just wanted to add another  
> perspective.

I guess everybody agreed that this is not dispute - it's exchange of  
opinions.

--
Sergii Stoian