Re: groff Digest, Vol 216, Issue 8

[Douglas McIlroy]

I strongly second Steve Izma. "-based" is an ugly substitute for
"based on", regardless of what other words are present.

Doug

On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 12:03 PM <groff-request@gnu.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. 3-word compound adjectives; the return of the '-'
>       (Alejandro Colomar)
>    2. Re: 3-word compound adjectives; the return of the '-' (Steve Izma)
>    3. Re: 3-word compound adjectives; the return of the '-'
>       (G. Branden Robinson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 16:47:27 +0200
> From: Alejandro Colomar <alx.manpages@gmail.com>
> To: groff <groff@gnu.org>
> Cc: linux-man <linux-man@vger.kernel.org>, "G. Branden Robinson"
>         <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com>
> Subject: 3-word compound adjectives; the return of the '-'
> Message-ID: <82b77010-6b42-a58a-f8c7-b977297d6832@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hi,
>
> In a patch to linux-man@ there's a 3-word compound adjective.  I don't
> know what are the rules for such a thing, and I'd like to have some
> consistency (and correctness) in the manual pages.
>
> I've seen many different things in the past;:
>
>   a) block device-based filesystems
>   b) block-device-based filesystems
>   c) block- device-based filesystems
>
> And now I found one more
> <https://www.editorgroup.com/blog/to-hyphenate-or-not-to-hyphenate/>:
>
>   d) block device\[en]based filesystems
>
> Where the en dash is used to distinguish it from 'a block filesystem
> based on a device'.
>
> Which form would you recommend me to use?
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Alex
>
> --
> <http://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 11:07:41 -0400
> From: Steve Izma <sizma@golden.net>
> To: groff@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: 3-word compound adjectives; the return of the '-'
> Message-ID: <Y0bYPR0azVWb2VlX@locust>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 04:47:27PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > Subject: 3-word compound adjectives; the return of the '-'
> >
> >  a) block device-based filesystems
> >  b) block-device-based filesystems
> >  c) block- device-based filesystems
>
> Surely "filesystems based on block devices" is much less
> mind-boggling.
>
>         -- Steve
>
> --
> Steve Izma
> -
> Home: 35 Locust St., Kitchener, Ontario, Canada  N2H 1W6
> E-mail: sizma@golden.net  phone: 519-745-1313
> cell (text only; not frequently checked): 519-998-2684
>
> ==
> The most erroneous stories are those we think we know best – and
> therefore never scrutinize or question.
>     -- Stephen Jay Gould, *Full House: The Spread of Excellence
>        from Plato to Darwin*, 1996
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 10:52:49 -0500
> From: "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com>
> To: Alejandro Colomar <alx.manpages@gmail.com>
> Cc: groff <groff@gnu.org>, linux-man <linux-man@vger.kernel.org>
> Subject: Re: 3-word compound adjectives; the return of the '-'
> Message-ID: <20221012155224.yhlmkaid23aumzoo@illithid>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Alex,
>
> At 2022-10-12T16:47:27+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > In a patch to linux-man@ there's a 3-word compound adjective.  I don't
> > know what are the rules for such a thing, and I'd like to have some
> > consistency (and correctness) in the manual pages.
>
> Always laudable goals!  :D
>
> > I've seen many different things in the past;:
> >
> >  a) block device-based filesystems
> >  b) block-device-based filesystems
> >  c) block- device-based filesystems
> >
> > And now I found one more
> > <https://www.editorgroup.com/blog/to-hyphenate-or-not-to-hyphenate/>:
> >
> >  d) block device\[en]based filesystems
> >
> > Where the en dash is used to distinguish it from 'a block filesystem
> > based on a device'.
>
> Personally, I think the en dash is too much trouble to mess with.  Only
> readers as meticulous as we, and those with good fonts and good
> eyesight, will distinguish the en dash and hyphen glyphs.
>
> > Which form would you recommend me to use?
>
> Steve Izma articulated a good principle.  If thrust upon the horns of a
> wordsmithing dilemma, consider recasting entirely.
>
> That said, I'd go with "block device-based filesystems",[1] because
> there is no hyphen already in the noun phrase "block device", just as
> there isn't in "ice cream" (a compound word), and perhaps more on point,
> as there isn't in "hot fudge sundae" (even though it is only the fudge
> that is hot,[2] not the whole sundae).
>
> Similarly, we say "thirty year-old bug" and "two-fisted drinker", but
> "mother-in-law-driven divorce".  The multiplicity of hyphens in the last
> case is because they're already present in the word being compounded.  A
> "mother in law" would, strictly, refer to a maternal figure with an
> occupation in the legal system.
>
> I'd dig more into the underlying grammatical principles I would
> articulate for these cases but I'd prefer to get this email completed
> before next month.  ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Branden
>
> [1] I prefer "file system" and "file name" to their space-free
>     alternatives; I think the latter are the product of programmers
>     forgetting that they're writing English nouns instead of C
>     identifiers.  But I acknowledge that in many quarters those battles
>     are lost.
> [2] and it's chocolate sauce anyway, not true fudge--such is marketing
>     honesty in the U.S.
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> End of groff Digest, Vol 216, Issue 8
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