Re: developing javascript with guix

[Maxime Devos]

TL;DR: I disagree with many of the claims, I agree that some 
documentation using specific examples is useful, I disagree that this 
isn't what we are already doing in the Guix manual, I agree that we 
don't have per-language landing pages yet and that they could be a 
convenient starting point, I disagree on the degree to which this is 
useful, I disagree that this is required.

On 28-07-2022 01:15, Ryan Prior wrote:
> ## Explanation in context
>
> The language-specific package managers generally don't take for granted that people know 
> anything about the language, because they're designed to be accessible to learners of the 
> language. For example, PyPI's explanation for pip starts with the basic "can you 
> even run Python?" and goes through a bunch of Python-specific package 
> workflows:https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/tutorials/installing-packages/
Neither does the Guix package manager take for granted you know anything 
about the language -- the package management commands are 
language-independent in Guix. (imports are another matter, but those are 
a language manner, which Guix is not involved with). Also, AFAICT, that 
workflow is not Python-specific but PyPi+pip-specific, except for the 
"python3 --version" check. It also seems abstract to me, i.e., it 
doesn't mention any specific packages to install for some project but 
uses abstract commands like "python3 -m pip install "Foo==some-version", 
nothing concrete?
> We could write a guide like that

We already have one: see (guix)Getting Started.

> with information and example commands specific to Python packaging, and another 
> for JavaScript, etc.
These commands are not language-specific in Guix.
> These provide explanation in context so beginners and people who are confused 
> for whatever reason can see concrete examples of what you're supposed to do.

Context and examples exist in (guix)Getting Started (example: Emacs, 
context: Getting Started,.

> Meanwhile, in the Guix docs, everything is abstract. We don't name any specific 
> library commons or restrict package search to any specific namespace, we don't 
> even have tags or categories for them.

"guix search node mersenne" -> node-mersenne
"guix search python mersenn" -> no results (can happen)

"guix search python aes" -> some python libraries implementing AES
"guix search node aes" -> likewise, no results.
"guix search rust aes" -> many results

No tags or categories are needed if the descriptions are good. Maybe 
this can be mentioned among the examples in (guix)Invoking guix package?

>   There is no link to Guix documentation I can give to a Python hacker that 
> assures them, in the way PyPI's website does, that Guix has the stuff they need 
> and they can find it and make it work. So Guix requires more faith and 
> experimentation from users, which means a lot of people will just bounce off it.
Myself, I doubt that this will give much assurance or help them beyond 
what the docs already do, but I suppose we could make a few 
language-specific 'cheat sheets' of sorts, which seems to be the kind of 
thing you are referring to?  E.g.,:

* Install the Python interpreter: $ guix install python

  (see (guix).... for more info on "guix install")

* Install some Python libraries: $ guix install python-thisexample 
python-thatexample
* Search for Python libraries: $ guix search python more-keywords...

  (see [...] for more info on [...])

  Example: search for Python cryptography libraries: $ guix search 
python crypto ...

* Start the Python interpreter: $ python3

* Start Python and import some libraries:

  $ python3

  import foobar

  (see https://some-python-site on how to use imports in Python.)

  Important: the package name does not always match the name used in 
Python!.

I don't think this brings much, but not much is still a little, and a 
little is still useful.

If there is interest, such workflows could be worked out in prose.

Greetings,
Maxime.

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