Re: Using unmaintained plugins

[Jean Louis]

* Bithov Vinu <bithov.vinub@gmail.com> [2021-04-19 11:12]:
> been addressed by Dr Piotr Wozniak (see here
> <https://www.supermemo.com/en/archives1990-2015/english/company/wozniak> for
> credentials) pretty extensively here
> <https://www.supermemo.com/en/archives1990-2015/articles/myths>.
> 
> The point that mnemotechniques can be used solely as a panacea for memory
> is directly debunked in that article;

What I see on that website is that somebody is selling a competing
service. That service itself is mnemonic, but it provides a statement
like "Myth: other mnemonics are not good enough".

I don't need any special mnemonic to see there a conflict of interest.

Things are not "debunked" just because somebody says it is kind of "myth".

> many of the courses that claim to give the audience "infinite
> memory" and are self-described "mentalists" are often snake-oil
> salesman and shills.

I don't think you have a good example for that, saying so, does not
make it so. I gave on this list one of best references to Harry
Lorayne's books, and there are many others. Of course you are free to
make conclusions without research and looking into. But I am sad for
that as I have given you very proper recommendation.

The Memory Book is written by Harry Lorayne and Jerry Lucas, 1974,
Library of Congress Catalog Number: 73-90705, it helps in memorizing
long words, appointments, errands, shopping lists, speeches, foreign
and English vocabulary, names and faces, long-digit numbers, style
numbers, prices, telephone numbers, playing cards, anniversaries,
historical dates, stock market, politics, arts, music, and you name
it. By understanding the methods one can develop a method for just
about anything. In this book there is nothing impractical, all methods
are very practical and many people use it.

> Jean's point that you ought not to use spaced repetition, because it
> relies on rote memorization rather than understanding, isn't sound

Yes, that is the point, unless you know more about mnemonics and
spaced repetition is one of mnemonics, you better research the subject
as you may run into waste of time.

That a program exist for spaced repetiton is fine and good, but it is
not the only method of memorizing things, I consider it poor as it
does not work by what? Associations. That is one important chapter in
the above mentioned book "2. In the first place: Associations" where
it says "All memory, whether trained or untrained, is based on
association".

Spaced repetition creates in the mind subtle associations sooner or
later but that somehow goes by force. Repeat until repetition becomes
association itself.

To remember is action. If you "forget" it most probably means you
never really remembered. We do not teach new generations "how to
remember", we just tell them plain "remember this or that" -- but that
does not make it and they "forget" -- because they never remembered in
the first place.

> in that: a) no-one versed in the field of spaced repetition and the
> forgetting curve is advocating substituting understanding for rote
> memorization through spaced repetition

So what? Maybe they are group or class of people who never discovered
well known existing techniques.

Many people don't use spaced repetition, that similarly does not mean
that mnemonics under that name is nothing useful.

> b) in fact, Piotr Wozniak (the first researcher to implement a
> spaced repetition algorithm on a computer) argues that formulation
> of knowledge is hugely important in using spaced repetition, as
> summarised here
> <https://www.supermemo.com/en/archives1990-2015/articles/20rules>. The
> first rule of "formulating knowledge" is "do not learn (ie. memorise
> using spaced repetition) what you do not understand (ie. what you
> haven't learned in the traditional sense of the word)".

It is somehow defeating itself. To memorize means to learn by
heart. Word is rather used in the context where there is not so much
to understand, for example some numbers or verses, let us say whole
Bible. "To learn" is used in the context where person can understand
things.

One principle presented there is "Do not learn if you do not
understand" which I totally agree to.

> I could debunk each point that Jean made, but the field of spaced

Ha, wow, you must be expert, great. /irony/ Just how to debunk
something that you have never tried?

> repetition is incredibly well documented (mostly by Piotr Wozniak, see his
> sites here <https://www.supermemo.com/en/blog> and here
> <https://www.supermemo.guru>) so going through each point would be a waste
> of time. I would highly recommend that you read SupermemoGuru in
> particular, that site is rich in its writing.

It may be well documented, Author has interest to promote it why not,
and you are free to buy it.

If you know just A among all of the alphabet, it does not mean that
alphabet does not exist, once you learn the alphabet you may also
learn there are many other different alphabets. There is knowledge
behind the knowledge. People tend to have in their mind some kind of
"perfect set of knowledge" and many like to stop exploring as it is
better to focus on that what one knows and is used to, similarly like
people arguing which programming language is better or sticking to one
language for long time. 

> More generally, the forgetting curve is found everywhere in nature, and
> attempting to circumvent it using mnemonics is completely futile
> <https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Mnemonic_anchor>.

That is what you say and Supermemo.guru, not what Harry would say. I
also don't see that personally, I could and can at any time, remember
more and more from my childhood if I wish, as I know how to find those
apparently lost memories. Majority of people don't know, I know. So I
do not know what I am really forgetting, but those things which I did
not remember in the first place.

-- 
Jean

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