Re: Exporting form emacs texinfo-mode to dvi, pdf, and html

[Jean Louis]

* lisa-asket@perso.be <lisa-asket@perso.be> [2021-06-28 12:44]:
> In reality there is no valid reason not to use elisp.

No valid reason NOT to use Emacs Lisp. Well, there are many valid
reasons for variety of people one important one would be the
familiarity to a programming language. No matter what is technical
advantage the familiarity is number one factor for people to use this
or that programming language. A Perl programmer is familiar with its
tools and would not like to switch to Emacs Lisp.

Majority of people don't use Emacs Lisp for nothing else but improving
the Emacs as editor. Though it is full programming language that can
do so much. Yesterday I was writing the double opt-in in Emacs Lisp
that will serve as CGI program on websites. Parameters for script may
be configured within Emacs. Great.

> Makefiles are just an obsession for some developers.

Makefiles solve complex problems. There are various Make related
solutions in free software. You need not use any of them and you may
cherry-pick some of them. That it is obsession I would not say, unless
you have made a large interview with developers and identified their
groups and backgrounds. Statement is too general. Opinion is somehow
shallow. 

> just as databases are for others.

Database as obsession? The database helps me NOT to think about the
database, structures, where is what piece of information. When I am
hard coding or writing information in some data loaded into Emacs Lisp
then I have to think of it, which list did I make, which key, value,
alist, and so on. Pieces of information are not related to each
other. Database integrates all pieces of information and thus helps
minimize programming efforts down to almot 1% of what otherwise would
be needed.

This is my Org agenda alternative in just few lines:

(defun hyperscope-hyperdocuments-agenda ()
  (interactive)
  (hyperscope-voice 44)
  ;;(rcd-speak "Hyperscope agenda")
  (let ((sql "SELECT DISTINCT timestamps_hlinks, timestamptypes_name,
              to_char(timestamps_timestamp::date, 'Day'), 
timestamps_timestamp::date,
              hyobjects_name, actionstatuses_name
              FROM hyobjects, timestamps, timestamptypes, actionstatuses
              WHERE hyobjects_id = timestamps_hlinks
              AND timestamptypes_id = timestamps_timestamptypes
              AND timestamptypes_inagenda IS TRUE
              AND actionstatuses_id = hyobjects_actionstatuses
              AND actionstatuses_actionstatustypes != 3
              ORDER BY timestamps_timestamp DESC")
        (highlights (append '("ACTION") (hyperscope-timestamp-list t)))
        (buffer-name "Hyperscope Agenda"))
    (kill-matching-buffers buffer-name t t)
    (rcd-db-sql-report buffer-name sql [("ID" 5 t) ("Type" 10 t) ("Day" 9 t) 
("Timestamp" 10 t) ("Hyperdocument" 55) ("Action" 10 t)] "hyobjects" 
'("Timestamp" . t) 'hyperscope-hyperdocuments-agenda highlights)))

Of course there are more lines behind it, but not more than maybe 4-5
times that much, few lines for database table definition and
`rcd-db-sql-report', key bindings, etc. that's about it.

Obsession...

* Overview of noun obsession

The noun obsession has 2 senses (no senses from tagged texts)
1. compulsion, obsession -- (an irrational motive for performing trivial or 
repetitive actions, even against your will; "her compulsion to wash her hands 
repeatedly")
2. obsession, fixation -- (an unhealthy and compulsive preoccupation with 
something or someone)

Makefiles - are necessity, I cannot see obsession. It is part of
software history and today there are different build tools. People use
different.

When something is irrational I would say it is obsession. For that
reason I gave up from Org mode. As the deeper one goes one can find
plethora of irrational love to a tool that does not make it right not
closely right as compared to some other tools made for the similar
purpose. Here I refer to tasks handling, planning, rather then writing
the outline. Org mode is a good outline, bad task planner
application. Surely I have recognized that I have been introduced to
it due to hype around it, back in 2016, but somewhere in 2019, it was
unbearable and I have switched in 2020 to complete different
system. The Org mode would like to be a database, but it is not and
will never be. The amount of coding given to Org mode is great number
lines that are trying to replace otherwise in other software parts
some very common issues. One example could be the GDBM, would Emacs
have module or bindings to GDBM database it would solve so many
problems that Org mode is trying to solve. In general things could get
so much faster, but we don't have that. I have asked Sergey maintainer
of GDBM to include it at least as module.

Databases don't fall into obsession category (except for some people),
they are rather practical minimization of programming efforts.

Take for example the Emacs configuration file, it could be stored in
such built-in database, and at all times also edited as plain
text. The GDBM is a key value database, it would be trivial to make a
special mode to edit the database directly and visually straight from
editor.

My package for hash editing is an example. Edit hash visually, send it
to other people, exchange. 

Emacs Lisp package `rcd-hash-edit.el`
https://hyperscope.link/3/7/6/6/1/Emacs-Lisp-package-rcd-hash-edit-37661.html

There are some packages that promise "persistent" data structures,
persistent scratch buffer, persistent variables, and so on. By having
database hooks such issues are easily solved.

Database is for example handling complex structures of people's
records. It would be oversimplified if I would say it is "address
book" as it is not. Complex relations between people from one to each
other, relatives, friends, business partners, introducers, their
related SMS messages, emails, faxes, letters, directories, files,
images, offers, quotations, invoices, you name it. It lessens or
minimizes programming times. Trying to implement it in Emacs is not a
scalable solution. GNU Hyperbole address book or BBDB or Org contacts,
nothing nearly comes close to what database offers to advance user.

But if it is obsession? I don't think so. It is practical tool.

Emacs can be obsession, but I am not using it as because of obsession
but because it is useful, practical. People write in Emacs. Writing is
one of most important intellectual activities. It influences society.

Majority of Emacs users are not obsessed. They are
enthusiasts. Enthusiasm is lively interest in something.

When it comes to handling of mission critical real time information
maybe the attempt to do it with Emacs Lisp could be considered
obsession as maybe there are other programming languages more suitable
for different types of tasks.

-- 
Jean

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