Re: no to war in Ukraine

[Alexandre Garreau]

Le lundo, 28-a de februaro 2022, 12-a horo kaj 46:56 CET Jacob Hrbek a écrit :
>  > This list is not for promotion of proprietary software.
> 
> One thing is promotion of proprietary software the other is the
> promotion of freedom for which we dedicated our effort to do

since the matter (software freedom) is complex, you can do both at the same time

> It can _NOT_ be called a Free Software and Free Hardware Designs if it's
> used to circumvent the Freedom for 43 _MILLION_ people (that's 43 000
> 000 people!) by violence, war crimes and death.

It can, and it would, but nobody have shown any example of this happening (like 
a specific 
example of a software used by putin’s army).

If freedom of circulation was used to help a soldier, would you stop calling 
that freedom of 
circulation? same for freedom of speech? freedom of belief? etc. etc. etc.

You cannot unilaterally decide words have no meaning anymore, or your arbitrary 
one, on 
the mere basis oppression exists somewhere.

> What i argue for is to enforce the values on which we found Free
> Software

Free Software still is full of communists, with many important people being 
procapitalism 
socdems, and an overrepresentation even among neonazis: the movement is 
politically 
very diverse, and the values are difficult to widden further.  To me, for 
instance, the link to 
anarchocommunism is obvious, but i’m also in the best position to observe it’s 
not to most: 
otherwise you wouldn’t disagree.

So that’s useless.

You are arguing for the same discursive diversion Ethical Licenses have, on the 
ground it is 
fair to use oppression (given by the modern power that modern copyright, 
elitism and 
technological opacity enables) to fight oppression.  I swear this is the EXACT 
same mindset 
that is enabling russian soldiers to believe they’re fighting for freedom right 
now in 
ukraine.

> instead of being ignorant and dedicating more resources in this
> namely the second part that majority of Free Software advocates and
> developers comfortably prefer to not exist:
> 
>   * Freedom 2: The freedom to /redistribute/ and make copies _so you can
> help your neighbour_
> 
> How can you even argue that we are helping our neighbour here?

Since neighboors are numerous and politically diverse, it is obvious in case of 
conflict 
helping one neighboor is harming another, and vice versa, harming a neighboor 
is helping 
another.  The freedom shall be guaranteed to avoid oppression using computers. 
Typically 
the ones against which free software protects: the oppression of some 
programmer and or 
their boss, over users.  And you are advocating to abandon that fight, and to 
increase that 
oppression, in order to fight another oppression.  Naively thinking that won’t 
last further, 
be pushed further, or be used back against you.

> We are
> enabling this violent war criminal who wages the war on freedom with the
> threat of a nuclear missiles on the European Union member countries and
> invasion of finland and swed
> en to kill us and our neighbours and worse
> in my case my slav brothers and sisters.

I am really, really, deeply sorry, we are in the same shit rn.  I try to keep 
calm by thinking 
of it like an abscess we have to burn out at some point.  Putin always have 
been a threat 
anyway.  Some solution have to be found.

Unfortunately, nobody in this list has a solution.  Even your propositions are 
dummy, 
inefficient, and misdirected (you were suggesting to remove freedoms of the 
people 
oppressed by the same oppressor, and among the most numerous one to protest 
against 
him).

> Each minute that we hesitate on the subject is a minute of resources
> that we gift to russia to continue in this by maintaining their
> technological infrastructure.

you should know that most of free software is used through distributions that, 
even with a 
rolling release cycle, would be too slow to act before a such war end.

moreover, whatever we do, the past versions of our software are already 
archived on all 
the planet (because of caches, local mirrors, etc. including in all russia), so 
whatever we 
do, it will be as limited as the amount of progress we can do during the war… 
so very 
limited.

moreover, like several said: copyright is not effective against a state (and 
russia is known 
not to respect it already), and landwise censorship to be ineffective over the 
internet.

therefore, you have no proposition.  it is unfortunate, but your work and its 
possibilities 
have little to do or relate to this war.  if you want to change something, 
gather material 
help.  but i think you should first seek for emotional support among the people 
closest to 
you, as the most calm, the most efficient you will be.

>  > Condemning citizens of single country for what their political
> 
> leaders do is wrong.
> 
> I am not condemning, i even praised my brothers and sisters in russia
> who take a huge risks to oppose putin by staging mass protests across
> russian federation as "The Heroes of
> Russia"[https://qoto.org/@kreyren/107875192175864676] multiple times and
> i do whatever i can to support them.

no, you advocated and stated you would ban them from your software, how is that 
support?

I really wish you everything good that can happen to you, may you be strong…