[Hyperbole-users] [bugs@gnu.support: Re: Need more usage examples (Was: Subscription within Hyperbole did not work, do I need to repeat sending bugs?)]

[Jean Louis]

----- Forwarded message from Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> -----

Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2019 08:17:16 +0200
From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
To: address@hidden
Cc: hyperbole-users <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: [Hyperbole-users] Need more usage examples (Was:
        Subscription within Hyperbole did not work, do I need to
        repeat sending bugs?)

* Robert Weiner <address@hidden> [2019-10-05 21:45]:

> Yes, just set the button highlighting face to have the underlined
> attribute or any other you want.  When you say you want the buttons
> to be links, do you mean Emacs pushbuttons or do you just want them
> to highlight when the mouse rolls over.  All of this is possible, we
> just need to understand how it will help beyond the way things are
> now.

In my opinion, if Hyperbole is recognizing those implicit links in the
MANIFEST file or other similar files, it should underline those links
automatically. That could be friendlier for user. At this point I have
use for MANIFEST files, for large collection of PDFs, HTML files and
similar. Better said, underlining shall be automatic and not left to
users to set it up, just a thought.

> > Additional issue is that duplicated Hyperboly buttons/links are
> > not recognized until the file is saved. I hope you know that.
> >
> If a button exists in a saved file and then it is copied within the
> same file, the copy should work just as the original.

It is not that I am saying. I have tried it today with Hyperbole 7.0.6
and it works like this:

1. I am opening a file like `newtext'

2. Then I do C-h h E C and I add for example https link.

3. The button appears like: <(Some Example)>

4. Pressing M-RETURN on that link does not work. In my opinion this is
   a bug. If I have added the link the link should work right away.

5. I need to save the file `newtext' and after saving the link begins
   to function.

When creating links that are not to work immediately, maybe Hyperbole
shall ask user if the file has to be saved, or maybe it shall enable
the link right away without saving it.

> Did you have trouble figuring out how to use the menus to create a
> button or to activate one with the Action Key?

Yes, I had serious troubles for multiple times, until I finally
figured it out. Not that I am beginner.

Then I figured out how to use menus, and I rather use key
bindings. And activating is fine too. Thanks.

There is this issue with terminology.

For example "Global Button" is something I would expect to appear in
text files as a button or link that works everywhere in every
buffer. So far I understand, it does not work in every buffer, it is
just a menu option.

That is incorrect terminology if it is only a button in the menu, and
not a button that one can insert in the text. Having possibility to
insert a true global button anywhere in the text files just by using
its label or name would be usable. I have no special use of menu
option created under Hyperbole menu.

"Global Button" is term that is not aligned with "buttons" in
Hyperbole.

> Did you have trouble understanding how the HyRolo contact manager
> works?  Probably not.  If anyone can list specific user-level things
> that are confusing or not well documented, we will work to eliminate
> the confusion.

That one is not quite usable for me. I did try using it, but I run
into trouble, Emacs was hanging on search within HyRolo, and I have
filed those bugs, you cannot replicate it if I remember well. It looks
as plain text contact management.

I have my own contact management which is based on the SQL database,
so currently I have no use of HyRolo. That could be used just as
temporary solution. It has no structure for structured fields of
contacts, so it cannot be exported, exchanged easily, for me I have no
use with it. Further, my contact database has too many entries that I
think it would not be feasibly for simple text search. 

> Your issues were likely thinking about ways you can integrate
> Hyperbole into your highly personalized workflow, which in your case
> is certainly a fairly complex problem.  Or maybe in trying to
> understand the myriad capabilities that Hyperbole allows (like
> trying to understand all of core Emacs or professional-level
> programming).  We will keep adding useful features that will help
> you but don't think that getting all you want in exactly the form
> you want will ever be a simple or fast process.  On the other hand,
> I think it will be a useful and educational one.

You are very kind, thank you. Yet do not just think for me, just think
for overall fundamental usability of Hyperbole for users. No need for
me for some special options.

In the meantime I have programmed global indexing system HyperScope,
and I am using it with many indexed entries, now it is over 15000
entries. It is like data tree based hyperlink index to anything, PDF
page numbers, or files, Internet pages, videos, everything
works and it uses PostgreSQL database. One PostgreSQL data type is
array, so I could use this data type to provide link to the file, and
to define the links inside that could involve certain words and link
those words automatically. That could be a feature similar like in
Hyperbole, just without the file in the directory, it would be stored
in the database related to the same file.

>From Hyperbole I still have expectation to work similar to
orglink-mode, https://github.com/tarsius/orglink to have links in any
buffer. But orglink-mode does not work for me, there is some error.

> > They are good, but for advance users. As I have demonstrated, Org
> > links have their settings, and I think Hyperbole could use the
> > ready code from Org links to make it available in every other
> > mode. Isn't it?

Alright, I guess that will be in upcoming release.

> > > In the forthcoming release, all of Org mode's link types are
> > also supported > by the Hyperbole Action Key, so you'll be able to
> > activate them as well in > Org major or minor modes.  We could
> > make them work in other modes but > haven't thought much about
> > that yet.

Links shall work in every mode, or at least should have possibility to
be activated in every mode.

> > > I have built indexed document repositories that can be
> > > referenced easily within email or other text.  See
> > > hib-doc-id.el.

Why don't you make doc-id-indices customizable in Hyperbole group?

I have tried to understand it. If I get it right, I am supposed to
define first the index entries, yet example is not sufficient to start
with it.

Jean

----- End forwarded message -----