Re: Is GitHub Copilot violates free software licenses?

[Thomas Lord]

   I agree that Danny Spitzberg makes a valuable clarification!  I am not
   advocating ineffectual gestures and self harm.  I'm advocating socially
   responsible engineering.  Thank you, Danny.

   -t



   On 2021-07-09 11:04, Danny Spitzberg wrote:

   Instead of quitting solo/individualistically, which makes no material
   impact on any company, every tech worker should first consider talking
   with and organizing with their fellow workers at their current
   workplace.

   On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 11:00 AM Thomas Lord <[1]lord@basiscraft.com>
   wrote:

     The copyright concerns seem minor until they're systematically
     exploited (if ever).
     Meanwhile, the product is basically "We've gotten really good at
     cranking our reams and reams of very low quality code to the point
     no computer user expects anything better and NOW, at last, we can
     automate part of this process and make it go faster!"
     Every tech worker should quit their job and go back to caring about
     writing good software that helps people, working at sane paces,
     and getting away from neglecting fundamentals including human need,
     solid systems software, simplicity and in-the-field composibility
     and
     deep extensibility, documentation, accessibility, ... etc.
     -t
     On 2021-07-09 08:58, Danny Spitzberg wrote:
     > Leslie gets it
     >
     >    On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 8:57 AM J Leslie Turriff
     > <[1][2]jlturriff@mail.com>
     >    wrote:
     >
     >      On 2021-07-07 14:04:02 Jean Louis wrote:
     >      > * alimiracle <[2][3]alimiracle@riseup.net> [2021-07-07
     21:35]:
     >      > > its doesn't give you the same code.
     >      >
     >      > That for sure.
     >      >
     >      > > its rearrangement codes and integrate them, and then
     gives you
     >      the
     >      > > result
     >      >
     >      > Yes, and that may be useful.
     >      >
     >      > > This thing make a lot of problems.
     >      >
     >      > Main problem is abuse of free software licenses.
     >      >
     >      > > - Makes programmers not creative
     >      >
     >      > I would not tell that too early. You know the libraries
     that
     > exist
     >      in
     >      > every programming language? They are often used and
     re-used, for
     >      > example Python libraries, Node.js libraries, Haskell
     libraries,
     > Go
     >      > libraries, there are so many. One could say that libraries
     make
     >      > programmers not creative as they are ready available.
     >      >
     >      > In fact, I like programming without using external
     libraries.
     > But
     >      > often it is useless to like it that way, libraries are
     available
     >      and
     >      > trying to re-write something is reinventing the wheel, so I
     end
     > up
     >      > using external libraries.
     >      >
     >      > Libraries are often so much bigger than programming
     snippets
     > that
     >      the
     >      > free software license abusive AI tool we speak about will
     > provide.
     >      >
     >      > Do libraries make programmers not creative? I don't think
     it is
     > so
     >      > generally. But in relation to the library they definitely
     make
     >      > programmer not think about whatever library is providing.
     In
     > that
     >      > context programmer will stop creating because library is
     already
     >      > there.
     >      >
     >      > With AI snippets is about similar.
     >      >
     >      > > Produces a generation of lazy programmers
     >      > > - Produces a generation of lazy programmers
     >      > > - Since the app collects codes and rearrange it
     ..........
     >      >
     >      > This may be said also for libraries. It is not useful to go
     >      analysing
     >      > it like that. One could say that because GUI exists for
     specific
     >      > programing language, that such GUI makes programmers lazy.
     >      >
     >      > But programmers are lazy!
     >      >
     >      >
     [3][4]https://html.duckduckgo.com/html/?q=programmers+are+lazu
     >      >
     >      > [4][5]https://www.sarcasm.com/programmers-are-lazy/
     >      >
     >      > [5][6]http://threevirtues.com/
     >      >
     >      > According to Larry Wall(1), the original author of the Perl
     >      programming
     >      > language, there are three great virtues of a programmer;
     > Laziness,
     >      > Impatience and Hubris
     >      >
     >      >     Laziness: The quality that makes you go to great effort
     to
     >      reduce
     >      >     overall energy expenditure. It makes you write
     labor-saving
     >      >     programs that other people will find useful and
     document
     > what
     >      you
     >      >     wrote so you don't have to answer so many questions
     about
     > it.
     >      >
     >      >     Impatience: The anger you feel when the computer is
     being
     >      >     lazy. This makes you write programs that don't just
     react to
     >      your
     >      >     needs, but actually anticipate them. Or at least
     pretend to.
     >      >
     >      >     Hubris: The quality that makes you write (and maintain)
     >      programs
     >      >     that other people won't want to say bad things about.
     >      >
     >      > > It means the app repeating other people's code mistakes.
     >      >
     >      > It can be, it is up to programmer to make it right.
     >              In the commercial programming environment, what
     you're
     >      calling laziness is a necessity of
     >      the drive by management to produce product as quickly as
     possible.
     >      (I spent thirty years
     >      in that environment.)  Stealing code from one program for
     another,
     >      or gutting a program
     >      to create a different one is the normal way of life in that
     >      environment.  Of course,
     >      those programs were all property of the company, so there was
     no
     >      issue of IP theft.
     >              The real drawback of using libraries is that one
     doesn't
     >      have time to look at how the
     >      services that a library provides work, how reliable and safe
     the
     >      library code is.
     >              In contrast, the snippets that this other service
     provides
     >      are likely small enough for
     >      the programmer to be able to analyze, and as a side-effect
     they
     >      further the programmer's
     >      knowledge of programming.
     >      Leslie
     >      --
     >      _______________________________________________
     >      libreplanet-discuss mailing list
     >      [6][7]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
     >
     >
     [7][8]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-dis
     cus
     >      s
     >
     > References
     >
     >    1. mailto:[9]jlturriff@mail.com
     >    2. mailto:[10]alimiracle@riseup.net
     >    3. [11]https://html.duckduckgo.com/html/?q=programmers+are+lazu
     >    4. [12]https://www.sarcasm.com/programmers-are-lazy/
     >    5. [13]http://threevirtues.com/
     >    6. mailto:[14]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
     >    7.
     >
     [15]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu
     ss
     >
     > _______________________________________________
     > libreplanet-discuss mailing list
     > [16]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
     >
     [17]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu
     ss

References

   1. mailto:lord@basiscraft.com
   2. mailto:jlturriff@mail.com
   3. mailto:alimiracle@riseup.net
   4. https://html.duckduckgo.com/html/?q=programmers+are+lazu
   5. https://www.sarcasm.com/programmers-are-lazy/
   6. http://threevirtues.com/
   7. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   8. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discus
   9. mailto:jlturriff@mail.com
  10. mailto:alimiracle@riseup.net
  11. https://html.duckduckgo.com/html/?q=programmers+are+lazu
  12. https://www.sarcasm.com/programmers-are-lazy/
  13. http://threevirtues.com/
  14. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
  15. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
  16. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
  17. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss