Re: LYNX-DEV why not use shift-V to access multiple bookmarks list?

[Al Gilman]

  From: "gregory j. rosmaita" <address@hidden>
  
  aloha, al!
  
  yesturday, you wrote:
  > There are two strategies I have been mulling:
  > 
  >     - define a capability-envelope for a virtual terminal class
  >     that at least 80% of the screen readers can use; use the
  >     TERMCAP/TERMINFO mechanism to tell lynx that this is what you
  >     have; let curses handle it.  This is eminently doable.  If
  >     for example Gregory and Patrick J. Burke agreed to lead a caucus in 
  >     lynx-learners to define the virtual terminal, that would get
  >     done, and then they could explain what to do with the
  >     capabilities of that terminal.  This already would be a         
  >     significant positive step.
  
  ok--i'm willing to do this, but i need you to redefine your terms in
  non-tech talk (i'm a medievalist by training)
  
We need more people than just you and me.  I will try to write the
above more clearly, but I bet Patrick could parse it.

One key idea is that many speech users have no audible signal that
they are on a link or not on a link.  I want an honest effort out
of the blind community to change that before I ask the WWW authors
of the world to break all links onto separate lines [since I won't
get that].

What I think I have heard is that many screen readers will
implement escape sequences if you tell them what noise to make.
I think that the technical leaders in the blind community should
be

        a) prioritizing VT-100 escape sequences for how critical they
        are to understanding the Lynx screen.

        b) developing libraries of appropriate sounds for these
        escape sequences and distribution packages that install this
        library (as much as possible) into a variety of screen readers.

        c) communicating back to the Lynx community how far we have
        been able to get with this self-help project.  I think that
        Rob's styles work will help us do lots of things in terms
        of mapping the most browse-critical markup onto
        [speech-usable] escape sequences.

        d) if the basic Lynx Make is compatible with generating and
        installing binaries, then we can find helpers with compilers
        for individual blind users and they don't need to be 
        dependent on their SysOps.  Even if the SysOps want to insist
        on Virus-scanning the executable and installing it themselves,
        they often _will do this_ if we can get them a binary that just
        drops in and works.  

  >     - [more work] Fote talked about six styles used in rendering
  >     UL.  If you study the problem, you realize that you want to
  >     tear up the display algorithms clear back before curses and use
  >     a different library of styles to present an HText in speech
  >     than on VT-100.  For example, a SELECT feature in the HText
  >     would be managed in the user dialog much the same as a 
  >     vertically-stacked column of RADIO button options, where the
  >     speech user is able to index through the options and hear one
  >     at a time (possibly with pop out to wrapper, pop back to 
  >     current index).
  
  same here--i think i understand what you are getting at, but i don't think
  i could explain it to someone else...

Between you and me, we don't have the horsepower to pull this one off.
Would you be willing to join me in testing the waters to see if we
could attempt a page-whacker that outputs reformatted pages that work
like your search examples?
  
  please fill me in on the specifics--i am very eager to assist in this
  arena, as my way of contributing/giving back to lynx-dev
  
One way of paying lynx-dev back is to solve as many of these problems
without changing Lynx as we can.  But we need to keep this thread
visible to lynx-dev because we need their [at least tacet] support
to pull it off in the end.

  i only beg your indulgence of my appaling ignorance, although i suppose
  that makes me the perfect tester--my tabula is most definitely rasa!
  
  gregory.

You already have the knowledge that the general Lynx developer lacks of
what works and what doesn't work for the speech user.  That is a key
ingredient of the answer, as I pointed out in my reply to Larry.

The hurrier I go the behinder I get.

If we don't rush, we might just get somewhere with this.

Al
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