Pooh,
The inescapable irony, of course, is that you target professional business
users. If you guys were geek teenagers not getting any and the project was
a game called ZONK... your arguments and tantrums would make more sense.
Brian
PS That is not directed at Brian J. or Lex. You both have been
extraordinary gentlemen and professional. Greatly appreciated.
-----Original Message-----
From: Star Support Beheer [mailto:address@hidden
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 4:15 PM
To: address@hidden; address@hidden
Cc: 'Brian Johnson'
Subject: Re: [Phpgroupware-users] hobby
For the record.... (This is towards you Brian Connolly)
I don't understadn sh** about all you guys are talking about.
To me it's too grammatical correct English which I don't understand...
but ok, that 'just' me. I DO understand the following...
Again for the record...
1. Don't bitch about other people's efforts
2. Don't bitch if you are not capable of setting up/maintaining a server
3. If you want to use phphgw, make sure you have the abilities to do so
4. DO NOT !!! I stress !!! DO NOT bitch to the
developers/maintainters/hobbyists or whatever you would like to call them.
5. Stop bitching in general !!!
6. Don't blame you incompetance to phpgw!
7. Don't fill my mailbox with these kind of 'responses' (I marked them
spamm)
8. I would love to see Einstein have a discussion with you....
Now for a personal note...
Why do you think you are able to even 'try' phpgroupware.....?
beacause _you_ had a hobby or had fun developing it????......
Clearly NOT, but please respect others to do as they wish.
Seriously (I'm way out of my league here... sorry all) PISS OFF!
Brian, althouh you think you have the right/ability to ' discuss' the '
issue' you should ask yourself ' how the f*** can it be that I DEMAND SO
MUCH and SO LITTLE in return' !
Brian, you speak as if you ' invented' Open Source... but you know
NOTHING about it.
So Brian, if you don't mind. please crawl back in to where ever you came
from, and get back here whenever you are ready to 'understand' and ready
to PARTICIPATE!
Until then Brian.... Please leave.
(To all the rest of the list... sorry! I could not let him bitch about
phpgw despite ALL the suggestions and polite answers)
and hey Brian, don't answer this e-mail/thread because I'm not
interested AT ALL in your point of view.
Let it be...
and Brian, please stay off the list with this Bull!
Hsing-Foo Wang (aka pooh_)
ps. Don't bitch about my spelling !
Brian Connolly wrote:
Brian,
I think good points were made by both sides. In my experience, heat is a
natural consequence of the iterative process and passion is god's little
motivator.
Now one last word on professionalism... after a scrap, pros brush
themselves
off and move forward. I hope that is a reasonable expectation.
For the record, I apologize for any low blows.
Best,
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Johnson [mailto:address@hidden
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:16 AM
To: address@hidden
Subject: Re: [Phpgroupware-users] hobby
Can we please end this thread?
Brian:
You asked a question that required a high level of technical knowledge,
some
of it
about your system config, a system to which it seems that nobody involved
has access.
The first few posts seem to be people trying to offer a couple of
suggestions and
you asking for more detailed information. From there it degenerated as
more
people
got involved.
This like most open source projects relies upon volunteers.
Please consider a swap of roles with you being the person able to help and
giving
some and then be criticized and name called (what the heck is a faux
developer?)
becuase the person you are trying to help doesn't understand it and
doesn't
appear
to even _try_ to understand it.
Please realize that losing patience and attacking the people trying to
help
you will
usually result in even less aid the next time you ask for it (I find this
applies to
everything in life)
Everybody else:
Why bother replying with statements like "somebody already told you what
you
need".
Sometimes silence is the best response, for it would give him time to
think
about
the answer and decide to investigate it further himself and either solve
it,
or come
back (in a polite, friendly way) with more information to narrow down the
problem,
or decide to pay someone for support, or decide not to use phpgw (in my
opinion that
would be his loss)
I think those options pretty much sum up support for all open source
projects.
Responding in a preaching manner (ie this is what you SHOULD have done)
seems to
usually degenerate the thread pretty quickly from my observations.
Everybody:
Can we stop this?
Discussions of hobby vs profesional vs hobby & profession (that's what I
strive for
.. to get paid for what I enjoy doing) are irrelevant. The world (and the
tech
industry in general) are ripe with examples of hobbies turned business.
M$
and
Apple come quickly to mind.
Phpgroupware is a complex set of php scripts that in turn relies upon the
proper
configuration of numerous other complex systems (web server, the php
language,
databases, DNS, firewalls, etc.). From my observation of irc and the
mailing lists,
it seems as there are AT LEAST as many problems/questions related to these
underlying systems as there are attributed to phpgw itself.
If you don't want to get involved in learning about and troubleshooting
your
systems
for these dependant systems, hire someone to do it for you.
It is really that simple.
Now kiss and make up.
Brian Connolly (address@hidden) wrote:
Dan,
If there was a single email that could discredit all the efforts of those
who've worked tirelessly to make this a business application... Dan you
just
wrote it. If you guys cannot take yourself seriously, you cannot expect
anyone else to.
That's too bad.
Regards,
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Kuykendall [mailto:address@hidden
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 10:57 PM
To: address@hidden; address@hidden
Subject: Re: [Phpgroupware-users] open_basedir restriction
Brian Connolly wrote:
Remember, without users, phpgw is only a hobby.
You say that as a bad thing.
When jengo and I started phpGW and laid out the entire infastructure we
did it completely as a hobby.
Many of the initial development team worked on phpGW as a hobby, since
none of us were being paid for any phpGW work, and to this day very few
people involved make any money dev'ing it. In fact alot of the time
"users" simply get in the way of the fun.
Of course many involved are in fact focused on the user base, and
making money working on phpGW, and the project benefits from this group
as well. But dont go getting all pissy about the ***FREE*** help you are
offered, and try and insinuate that phpGW is only a hobby without you.
Because if thats the case, SO WHAT?
Its nice that the world can benefit from what we started as a "hobby".
Dan
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