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[Pingus-CVS] r2644 - in htdocs: . images images/.xvpics irc src
|
From: |
grumbel at BerliOS |
|
Subject: |
[Pingus-CVS] r2644 - in htdocs: . images images/.xvpics irc src |
|
Date: |
Sun, 14 Jan 2007 07:13:25 +0100 |
Author: grumbel
Date: 2007-01-14 07:12:01 +0100 (Sun, 14 Jan 2007)
New Revision: 2644
Added:
htdocs/images/
htdocs/images/.xvpics/
htdocs/images/.xvpics/logo_large.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/logo_pingus.png
htdocs/images/.xvpics/logo_pingus_alpha.png
htdocs/images/.xvpics/menubackground.png
htdocs/images/.xvpics/menubackgroundhover.png
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.0.0_small.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.0.8_small.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.0.9_small.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.4.0-3_small.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.4.0-4.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.4.0-4_small.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-1.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-1_small.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-2.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-2_small.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-3.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-3_small.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-4.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-4_small.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-5.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-5_small.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-6.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-6_small.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/snow_background.jpg
htdocs/images/.xvpics/walking.png
htdocs/images/anim_block_b.png
htdocs/images/anim_block_g.png
htdocs/images/anim_block_pink.png
htdocs/images/anim_blocker.png
htdocs/images/banner.png
htdocs/images/banner2.png
htdocs/images/banner3.png
htdocs/images/banner4.png
htdocs/images/banner5.png
htdocs/images/banner6.png
htdocs/images/banner7.png
htdocs/images/basher.png
htdocs/images/bg_pattern.png
htdocs/images/bomber.png
htdocs/images/builder.png
htdocs/images/button.png
htdocs/images/chickenBlowing2.png
htdocs/images/climber.png
htdocs/images/column.jpg
htdocs/images/desert_background.jpg
htdocs/images/digger.png
htdocs/images/digger2.png
htdocs/images/editor.jpg
htdocs/images/editor_tutorial_editor.jpg
htdocs/images/editor_tutorial_editor.png
htdocs/images/editor_tutorial_editor_small.jpg
htdocs/images/editor_tutorial_entrance.jpg
htdocs/images/editor_tutorial_entrance.png
htdocs/images/editor_tutorial_entrance_small.jpg
htdocs/images/editor_tutorial_level.jpg
htdocs/images/editor_tutorial_level2.jpg
htdocs/images/editor_tutorial_level2_small.jpg
htdocs/images/editor_tutorial_level_small.jpg
htdocs/images/editor_tutorial_objsel.jpg
htdocs/images/editor_tutorial_objsel_small.jpg
htdocs/images/empty.png
htdocs/images/emptyBlack.png
htdocs/images/explo.png
htdocs/images/faller.png
htdocs/images/favicon.png
htdocs/images/floater.png
htdocs/images/ground_example.png
htdocs/images/hotspot_egypt1.png
htdocs/images/hotspot_egypt2.png
htdocs/images/hotspot_example.png
htdocs/images/hotspot_level.jpg
htdocs/images/hotspot_snow1.jpg
htdocs/images/hotspot_snow2.jpg
htdocs/images/hotspot_snow3.jpg
htdocs/images/kingorca.jpg
htdocs/images/layers.jpg
htdocs/images/level_map.jpg
htdocs/images/level_map.png
htdocs/images/logo.jpg
htdocs/images/logo_banner.jpg
htdocs/images/logo_banner.png
htdocs/images/logo_blank.jpg
htdocs/images/logo_gnu.jpg
htdocs/images/logo_large.jpg
htdocs/images/logo_pingus.png
htdocs/images/logo_pingus_alpha.png
htdocs/images/menubackground.png
htdocs/images/menubackgroundhover.png
htdocs/images/miner.png
htdocs/images/multiAnim.png
htdocs/images/ownRisk.png
htdocs/images/pingu.png
htdocs/images/pingus.jpg
htdocs/images/pingus_logo.png
htdocs/images/poster.jpg
htdocs/images/screen.jpg
htdocs/images/screen.png
htdocs/images/screen2.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.0.0.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.0.0_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.0.10.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.0.10_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.0.12.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.0.12_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.0.13.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.0.13_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.0.14.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.0.14_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.0.8.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.0.8_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.0.9.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.0.9_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.1.0.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.1.0_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.1.1.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.1.1_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.1.2.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.1.2_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.2.0.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.2.0_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.2.2.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.2.2_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.2.3.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.2.3_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.2.4.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.2.4_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.3.0.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.3.0_1.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.3.0_1_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.3.0_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.3.1.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.3.1_1.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.3.1_1_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.3.1_2.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.3.1_2_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.3.1_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.3.2.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.3.2_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.0-1.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.0-1_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.0-2.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.0-2_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.0-3.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.0-3_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.0-4.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.0-4_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.0.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.0_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.1-1.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.1-1_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.1-2.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.1-2_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.1-3.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.1-3_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.1-4.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.1-4_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.1.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.4.1_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.5.0-1.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.5.0-1_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.5.0-2.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.5.0-2_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.5.0-3.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.5.0-3_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.5.0-4.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.5.0-4_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.5.0-5.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.5.0-5_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.6.0-1.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.6.0-1_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.6.0-2.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.6.0-2_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.6.0-3.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.6.0-3_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.6.0-4.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.6.0-4_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.6.0-5.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.6.0-5_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.6.0-6.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_0.6.0-6_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_linuxtag_forge.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_linuxtag_forge_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_linuxtag_parsec.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_linuxtag_parsec_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_linuxtag_tag.jpg
htdocs/images/screen_linuxtag_tag_small.jpg
htdocs/images/screenshot.jpg
htdocs/images/snow_background.jpg
htdocs/images/stopper.png
htdocs/images/trans1.png
htdocs/images/trap.png
htdocs/images/tumble.png
htdocs/images/walker.png
htdocs/images/walking.png
htdocs/irc/
htdocs/irc/2002-11-02.html
htdocs/irc/2002-11-02.log
htdocs/irc/2003-03-01.html
htdocs/irc/2003-03-01.log
htdocs/irc/2004-04-02.log
htdocs/src/Makefile
Log:
- more webpage stuff
Added: htdocs/images/.xvpics/logo_large.jpg
===================================================================
(Binary files differ)
Property changes on: htdocs/images/.xvpics/logo_large.jpg
___________________________________________________________________
Name: svn:mime-type
+ application/octet-stream
Added: htdocs/images/.xvpics/logo_pingus.png
===================================================================
--- htdocs/images/.xvpics/logo_pingus.png 2007-01-14 06:07:40 UTC (rev
2643)
+++ htdocs/images/.xvpics/logo_pingus.png 2007-01-14 06:12:01 UTC (rev
2644)
@@ -0,0 +1,5 @@
+P7 332
+#IMGINFO:205x78 RGB (20844 bytes)
+#END_OF_COMMENTS
+80 30 255
+I$II۶��IH%I۶��%HI%۶ڶ%HII�ڶ�%HII۶��I$II۶��$I$I۶ڷ$IH%۶ڷ$IHI�ڶ�H%HI۶��I$II۶��IH%I۶��%HI%۶ڶ%HII�ڶ�%HII۶��I$II۶��$I$I۶ڷ$IH%۶ڷ$IHI�ڶ�H%HI۶��I$II۶��IH%I۶��%HI%۶ڶ%HII�ڶ�%HII۶��I$II۶��$I$I۶ڷ$IH%۶ڷ$IHI�ڶ�H%HI۶��I$II۶��IH%I۶�$I��%ڷ��$II)ֶֻ$III��(EIIڷ��D)EIڷ��$I)Eڻֶ%HI)�ڶ�)DII�ֶ�۶��I$II۶��%HIIIH��(IDI�ֶ�D)HE۶��$I(I��$II(۶(EIH�ַ�$IEH۶��D)ID۶��$I)H۶��I$II۶��%H%mIH��(EIH�ַ�$IEH۶��D)IEڷ��$I)Iֶֻ$II)ڷֶ(EII��D)EIڷ��DI)E۶��I$II۶��%H�HIq��$I(I��$IH)۶ַ(EHI�ֶ�$IDI۶��D)HEۺ��$I)H(EI(�ַ�$IEH۶��I$����۶H%������$IHI�ֶ�H%HI۶��$I$I۶��$IH%۶ڷ$IHI�ڶ�(EIH۶��H)EH۶��$I)DI$II�mMhIMi��ַ�$E�D�ֺ�%HII��E(II۶��(E(I۶ֻ$ID)۶ڷ$IHE�ֺ�D)HI��HE(I۶��I$II�Hm)iLIm����$Iq���E(IE۶��%�(E۶��%�۶�����$I(۶$I��ڻ��D)IIֻ��(E)IڷֺI$IImmI(IiMmI��I(EI���(EI(�ַ�III��ږIIhNHMIm�$I�ڶ�)DnHI���$IHE������$I۶ַI$IImIH)m�iMHn�$IIH۶�ֶ$II)���$NHm)��֖$IIIHMILI�$�mM��$�mI�ڷ$IH�mIl)Im������۶���$)i���m)D�)HEM�E(II��!
)D�MIlJH���H%I��rD)m���(n�%��$IlN�D��q%HIIMHIM�(EIH۶���D����MIH�qE(I�$IIH�ۺ�����HMIm���%H)��$������$Nln���H)mI�%��
Hn�%HI��l)IiHMImI�$I(��mqmn��$۶ֶI$II�Hn��$%I۶ڶ������ֶ%HI)۶ֶ)DII�ֶ�E(ۍN���$I%H۶�ڶrimmrڶEH)I��%IH)۶ַI$II۶��IH%I۶��%HI%۶ڶ%HII�ڶ�%HII۶��I$II۶��$I$I۶ڷ$IH��ڶ�I$II۶��IH%I۶��۶��I$II۶��%H%I۶ڶ%HI%۶ڶ%HII�ڶ�I$II۶��HI$I۶��$IH%۶ڷ$IHI�ڶ�$IHI۶��H%HI۶��I$II۶��%H%I۶ڶ%HI%۶ڶ%HII�ڶ�I$II۶��HI$I۶��$IH%۶ڷ$IHI�ڶ�$IHI۶��H%HI
\ No newline at end of file
Added: htdocs/images/.xvpics/logo_pingus_alpha.png
===================================================================
--- htdocs/images/.xvpics/logo_pingus_alpha.png 2007-01-14 06:07:40 UTC (rev
2643)
+++ htdocs/images/.xvpics/logo_pingus_alpha.png 2007-01-14 06:12:01 UTC (rev
2644)
@@ -0,0 +1,5 @@
+P7 332
+#IMGINFO:205x78 RGB (20844 bytes)
+#END_OF_COMMENTS
+80 30 255
+I$II۶��IH%I۶��%HI%۶ڶ%HII�ڶ�%HII۶��I$II۶��$I$I۶ڷ$IH%۶ڷ$IHI�ڶ�H%HI۶��I$II۶��IH%I۶��%HI%۶ڶ%HII�ڶ�%HII۶��I$II۶��$I$I۶ڷ$IH%۶ڷ$IHI�ڶ�H%HI۶��I$II۶��IH%I۶��%HI%۶ڶ%HII�ڶ�%HII۶��I$II۶��$I$I۶ڷ$IH%۶ڷ$IHI�ڶ�H%HI۶��I$II۶��IH%I۶�$I��%ڷ��$II)ֶֻ$III��(EIIڷ��D)EIڷ��$I)Eڻֶ%HI)�ڶ�)DII�ֶ�۶��I$II۶��%HIIIH��(IDI�ֶ�D)HE۶��$I(I��$II(۶(EIH�ַ�$IEH۶��D)ID۶��$I)H۶��I$II۶��%H%mIH��(EIH�ַ�$IEH۶��D)IEڷ��$I)Iֶֻ$II)ڷֶ(EII��D)EIڷ��DI)E۶��I$II۶��%H�HIq��$I(I��$IH)۶ַ(EHI�ֶ�$IDI۶��D)HEۺ��$I)H(EI(�ַ�$IEH۶��I$����۶H%������$IHI�ֶ�H%HI۶��$I$I۶��$IH%۶ڷ$IHI�ڶ�(EIH۶��H)EH۶��$I)DI$II�mMhIMi��ַ�$E�D�ֺ�%HII��E(II۶��(E(I۶ֻ$ID)۶ڷ$IHE�ֺ�D)HI��HE(I۶��I$II�Hm)iLIm����$Iq���E(IE۶��%�(E۶��%�۶�����$I(۶$I��ڻ��D)IIֻ��(E)IڷֺI$IImmI(IiMmI��I(EI���(EI(�ַ�III��ږIIhNHMIm�$I�ڶ�)DnHI���$IHE������$I۶ַI$IImIH)m�iMHn�$IIH۶�ֶ$II)���$NHm)��֖$IIIHMILI�$�mM��$�mI�ڷ$IH�mIl)Im������۶���$)i���m)D�)HEM�E(II��!
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\ No newline at end of file
Added: htdocs/images/.xvpics/menubackground.png
===================================================================
--- htdocs/images/.xvpics/menubackground.png 2007-01-14 06:07:40 UTC (rev
2643)
+++ htdocs/images/.xvpics/menubackground.png 2007-01-14 06:12:01 UTC (rev
2644)
@@ -0,0 +1,5 @@
+P7 332
+#IMGINFO:148x1 Indexed (325 bytes)
+#END_OF_COMMENTS
+80 1 255
+�ۺ�ֻ�����������v�rr�rNqoqNrNqnRnrMsmRnrMsmRnrMrNrnQoqNrnQoqNrnQnRnrMsmRnrMsmRn
\ No newline at end of file
Added: htdocs/images/.xvpics/menubackgroundhover.png
===================================================================
--- htdocs/images/.xvpics/menubackgroundhover.png 2007-01-14 06:07:40 UTC
(rev 2643)
+++ htdocs/images/.xvpics/menubackgroundhover.png 2007-01-14 06:12:01 UTC
(rev 2644)
@@ -0,0 +1,5 @@
+P7 332
+#IMGINFO:148x1 Indexed (346 bytes)
+#END_OF_COMMENTS
+80 1 255
+nRmSmrNrmRnrNrmRnrRnqs�s�������������ۺ�����������������������������������������
\ No newline at end of file
Added: htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.0.0_small.jpg
===================================================================
(Binary files differ)
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___________________________________________________________________
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+ application/octet-stream
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===================================================================
(Binary files differ)
Property changes on: htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.0.8_small.jpg
___________________________________________________________________
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+ application/octet-stream
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===================================================================
(Binary files differ)
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___________________________________________________________________
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+ application/octet-stream
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===================================================================
(Binary files differ)
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===================================================================
(Binary files differ)
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Name: svn:mime-type
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===================================================================
(Binary files differ)
Property changes on: htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.4.0-4_small.jpg
___________________________________________________________________
Name: svn:mime-type
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===================================================================
(Binary files differ)
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___________________________________________________________________
Name: svn:mime-type
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===================================================================
(Binary files differ)
Property changes on: htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-1_small.jpg
___________________________________________________________________
Name: svn:mime-type
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===================================================================
(Binary files differ)
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Name: svn:mime-type
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(Binary files differ)
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___________________________________________________________________
Name: svn:mime-type
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===================================================================
(Binary files differ)
Property changes on: htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-3.jpg
___________________________________________________________________
Name: svn:mime-type
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===================================================================
(Binary files differ)
Property changes on: htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-3_small.jpg
___________________________________________________________________
Name: svn:mime-type
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===================================================================
(Binary files differ)
Property changes on: htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-4.jpg
___________________________________________________________________
Name: svn:mime-type
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===================================================================
(Binary files differ)
Property changes on: htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-4_small.jpg
___________________________________________________________________
Name: svn:mime-type
+ application/octet-stream
Added: htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-5.jpg
===================================================================
--- htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-5.jpg 2007-01-14 06:07:40 UTC (rev
2643)
+++ htdocs/images/.xvpics/screen_0.6.0-5.jpg 2007-01-14 06:12:01 UTC (rev
2644)
@@ -0,0 +1,5 @@
+P7 332
+#IMGINFO:800x600 RGB (68744 bytes)
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--- htdocs/irc/2002-11-02.html 2007-01-14 06:07:40 UTC (rev 2643)
+++ htdocs/irc/2002-11-02.html 2007-01-14 06:12:01 UTC (rev 2644)
@@ -0,0 +1,205 @@
+<html> <head><title>Pingus IRC Log</title></head> <body> <h1></h1><table
width="80%" border="1" align="center"><tr><th>Nick</th><th>Message</th></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">You are
now talking on #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">henri
(address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">hallo</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00"><--</td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">henri has
quit (Client Quit)</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA">---</td><td bgcolor="#AAAAAA">You have new
mail (1 messages, 1118 bytes total).</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">ginge
(address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">hi</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">henri
(address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">hi henri</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">gervase
(address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">hello </td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td bgcolor="#DDDDDD">at
19.00 West European time is's going to start?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Hi!</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">about 5 mins time by my computer clock</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">its getting fuller :)</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Would it be best to start with a general introduction of who
each of us are?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">I'm Henri Manson, I've been busy removing memory leaks in
pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">henri: ah, still haven't commited your patch</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">I'm Gervase Lam. I've mostly been trying to remove the
playability bugs. But I would just like to get the bug list down.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#999999">>grumbel<</td><td bgcolor="#999999">
<algorithm>? is missing in button_panel.cxx</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">I'm Neil Mitchell, and I use Windows, so have been doing Win
specific things</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td bgcolor="#DDDDDD">If
anyone else is also using VC++ I've implemented a memory allocation hook
function so you can find where</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">the memory was allocated one a leak is detected when
terminating Pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">I've also got my own leak detector, I just haven't run it
with Pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">I've also noticed that some functions return complete objects
instead of references to them.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">that costs overhead</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">aren't there really good memory leak/access error detectors
for Linux, that are much better than Windows ones?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">ginge: valgrind should be good, but I havn't really used it
myself</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Is there a vague agenda to this meeting?!</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">henri: there are quite a few objects in ClanLib that are
refcounted, so that shouldn't be such a big problem</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">gervase: no.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td bgcolor="#DDDDDD">I
have a question. As a pingus beginner is there some documentation available
about the design of pingus?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">classes etc..</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">henri: <a
href="http://pingus.seul.org/development.html";>http://pingus.seul.org/development.html</a>
</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">henri: that contains a bit, but most likly quite a bit
outdated</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">thanks</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">henri: <a
href="http://pingus.seul.org/sourcecodestructure.html";>http://pingus.seul.org/sourcecodestructure.html</a>
</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">henri: but this one was written before the big
cleanup</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">What is the plan with regards to getting out the next
release?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">gervase: tutorial island + a few normal levels should be 100%
working</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">gervase: sound and music also needs to be working
correctly</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">gervase: and actions should be finished</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">gervase: level editor also needs to get a bit
polished</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">I've made some changes so the sound works again in Windows.
The music is still hardcode in pingus. is the file</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">format still .it. Why is MIDI not used?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">It sounds like there is a long way to go. For example, one
of the "bugs" needs to be sorted are Sliders. The problem is that there is
still transitional animation for Sliders.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">The (Linux) software cursor problem is also on the list for
the next release 0.5.0. Is this a ClanLib problem?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">Much memory leaks are caused by the ::instance construct
which initialises a static object variable with "the" object</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">but that static variable is never freed.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">With regards to MIDI, aren't we going with WAV files because
they are more flexible?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">Another question. Why isn't the pingus project included in
SourceForge?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td bgcolor="#DDDDDD">It
can be handy to assign tasks to volunteers.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">grumbel_
(address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Well, the mailing lists (only) used to be on SourceForge.
But because of the 'poor' functionality they have, we moved this
summer.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">I think one of the problems was one of the "Reply" fields?
Correct me on all counts if I am wrong.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">hm, my xchat client staled again... looks like I missed the
last five minutes or so, could somebody copy&paste them to me?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td bgcolor="#DDDDDD">do
you want to have to story so far?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">How would you like this to be done? Could look confusing on
the screen.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkblue">grumbel grumbel_ Nov 02 19:28:11
>grumbel_<</td><td bgcolor="darkblue">test </td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">henri: clanlib doesn't have midi support and midi support
in general under linux is quite ugly</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">beside that mod's sound a lot better, while not wasting
that much space as .ogg files which we also support</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">but most important, .it was the format which the musican
used to create the music</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">does anybody know how I can dump a backtrace from within
the programm without launching gdb?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">IIRC there was some function/library to do it</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">but I can't remember which one</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">I am going to clean up the
PingusMain/GenericMain/AbstractMain mess a bit</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">ginge: could you compile a new win32-binary?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">sure, I have one that is pre-tutorial world, but with no
major bugs</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td bgcolor="#BBBBBB">I
can do another one, but at the moment I can't run pingus (recent reformat), so
I can't check it works first</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">henri: all those singleton instance() things should
probally get replaced with ::init()/::deinit() stuff</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">How shall I "move" the file to Pingus?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">ginge: you should be able to use tha savanna account to
upload files</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00"><--</td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">grumbel
has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">grumbel
(address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">that isn't very easy using Windows, it is really setup for
Linux, any easier way?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">ginge: no</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">ginge: aren't there ftp clients that can speak
sftp?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">ginge: you basically just need a key pair and an client
that speaks sftp, thats all</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen"><a
href="http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/";>http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/</a>
</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">not that I have on me, I'll look into it again, I have putty
already, but before it just "didn't work"</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">if sftp fails, try plain scp, that should work </td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">gervase: the slider action can be left out for the next
release, its still to unfinished</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">what is currently happening with the website?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">ginge: webpage is in savannas-html-CVS, subdirectory
redesign/</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">alright, I'll look into that - is it my XML one?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">and what needs to be done for it to go from redesign ->
real</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">ginge: its your xml stuff</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">ginge: we need new content</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">ginge: and we should probally make the change together with
the new release</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">good idea</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen"><a
href="http://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/index.php?group_id=2184&set=custom&advsrch=1&msort=0&report_id=110&category_id%5B%5D=0&bug_group_id%5B%5D=0&assigned_to%5B%5D=0&platform_version_id%5B%5D=0&status_id%5B%5D=1&release_id%5B%5D=0&plan_release_id%5B%5D=101&SUBMIT=Browse&chunksz=50";>http://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/index.php?group_id=2184&set=custom&;...</a>
</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">that should be the bugs that needs to get fixed before the
next release</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">Niel: can you mail me (address@hidden) what your activities
are in windows?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">activities? - you mean like my skills?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">grumbel: Do you want people to work on the website as anon
then submit patches to the mailing list?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">best would be if we could get a seperate maintainer for the
webpage</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">but patches should do for the moment</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">all people with a savanna account should also be able to
write directly to the html-CVS tree</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">but do you want us to commit directly or patch to the mailing
list?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">you can commit directly</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">but if you want to do a larger change, discuss at the
mailinglist first</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBB00">ItsMeHarry (address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00"><--</td><td
bgcolor="#BBBB00">ItsMeHarry (address@hidden) has left #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">we sooner or later need a start-up application for
pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">which allows player to select resolution, fullscreen or not
and things like that</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">does anybody want to take that job?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">How platform independent could this be?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">not sure</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">either we write two seperate ones for linux and win32 or we
use wxwindows or something like that</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">I suppose dialog boxes like that used in the Editor could be
used.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">no</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">thats already 'too late'</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">the startup-app should use the native system GUI
tools</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">since it should be used to avoid clanlib throuble</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">basically an options dialog that writes out to a settings
file?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#aadddd"><gnutzel></td><td
bgcolor="#aadddd">Maybe we could try wxwin Stuff?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">If Pingus is going to use a system abstraction class so that
it is platform independent, it would be daft to have a platform dependent
start-up application.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#aadddd"><gnutzel></td><td
bgcolor="#aadddd">Hm, I thought it would be good for a quick standalone
`Configurator` application.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">gervase: getting 100% abstract from the platform will never
work</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">for example one might to chose the opengl driver to use or
things like that</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">ginge: I'm back, I meant what you are doing right now for the
pingus project</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">ginge: yep, something like that</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">ginge: doesn't have to be very complicated</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">ginge: but could of course be a bit more sophisticated to
write down error logs and things like that</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">ginge: so that people can easily copy&paste stuff when they
want to write a bug report or things like that</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td bgcolor="#BBBBBB">I
can do a system configurator for windows with ease, just give me the stuff that
wants doing etc.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td bgcolor="#BBBBBB">I
was also thinking of doing an installer for Pingus on Windows, as most Win
users won't want to either unzip or CVS</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">henri: nothing at the moment, other than what i've offered in
the previous two lines</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Somebody e-mailed the list quite a while back about a
platform independent installer.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen"><a
href="http://www.nullsoft.com/free/nsis/";>http://www.nullsoft.com/free/nsis/</a>
</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">this is a free installer application</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">That was what I was thinking of using, I have done installers
in that before</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td bgcolor="#BBBBBB">i
don't think its platform independant though</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">The slight problem is that would mean deviating from what is
Linux's standard Red Hat Packaging system.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">But then again I have StarOffice on Linux. And the
installer, which is not Red Hat, is fine.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">gervase: I don't really like installers for linux</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">well ok, I don't really like .deb and .rpm either</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><ginge></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">g2g, can someone post the whole text of the conversation to
the website?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">has somebody a complete log?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">btw. should we write a worldmap editor or continue to write
them by hand?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#ddaadd">grumbel grumbel_ Nov 02 20:53:59
>grumbel<</td><td bgcolor="#ddaadd">Ich haette eins von **** BEGIN
LOGGING AT Sat Nov 2 15:43:42 2002</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">henri: I commited your memleak patch now</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBB00">ItsMeHarry (address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">henri: but I changed quite a few things in it</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td bgcolor="#DDDDDD">I
have a log of the conversation so for, should I send it?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel: I'll update CVS this evening, what have you
changed?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">added destructor in controller and init/deinit for
PingusResource</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">I also cleaned up the Pingus/Abstract/GenericMain
stuff</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel: on what platform are you working?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">linux</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#bbaadd"><ItsMeHarry></td><td
bgcolor="#bbaadd">why are there 2 grumbels?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#bbaadd"><ItsMeHarry></td><td
bgcolor="#bbaadd">ich verstehe nicht</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">cause I have to xchats up and running</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#bbaadd"><ItsMeHarry></td><td
bgcolor="#bbaadd">two, ok :)</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">when I use cvs update, must I also update clanlib?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">henri: no</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">henri: clanlib0.6 is pretty much staled, if somebody
important gets added i'll post it to the mailinglist</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">y
(address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00"><--</td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">gervase
has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00"><--</td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">y has
quit (Client Quit)</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">gervase
(address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">I've just had a look at the wxwin site <<a
href="http://www.wxwindows.org/>.";>http://www.wxwindows.org/>.</a> It's
a "cross platform GUI framework" system.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA">---</td><td bgcolor="#AAAAAA">ChanServ has
changed the topic to: Pingus - <a
href="http://pingus.seul.org";>http://pingus.seul.org</a> </td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00"><--</td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">ginge has
quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">hello, when using should I always use 'checkout' and not
'update'? Now several contains things like '<<<<<<' and then
apparently some integration</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">conflicts...</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">when using cvs</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">henri: rm the files and update again</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">henri: unless you have something in the files you want to
keep, than you have to resolve the conflict manually</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">this always happens if you change something, send a patch,
I'll change the patch a bit and commit -> bang, a conflict</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">havn't really found a way to avoid that</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00"><--</td><td
bgcolor="#BBBB00">ItsMeHarry has quit (Remote closed the connection)</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel: Now I'm regetting the source from CVS...</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel: when this meeting is over I can send you the text of
it.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">henri: ok</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel: done compiling, only 6 errors! One of them is that
generic_main.cxx isn't in the project. Can I remove it from the
project?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">yep, can be removed from project</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">Here's another one which I already got in the first
place:</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">F:\User\pingus\Games\Pingus\src\worldobj_data_factory.cxx(159)
: error C2065: 'XML_ELEMENT_PTR' : undeclared identifier</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">its this XML_GET_LINE() macro which doesn't seem to work
under windows (or at least not with some versions of libxml)</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">BTW: that's the only error left. I added #include
<ClanLib/Core/System/console_window.h></td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">I'll add a workaround</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td bgcolor="#DDDDDD">in
pingus_main.cxx for CL_ConsoleWindow </td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">now everythings compiles again. In VC++ when linking I add a
'd' to the end of every Clanlib library to indicate it's a debugger</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">library</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">commited a fix</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel: Do you get a console window automatically in
Linux?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">you launch stuff from the terminal most of the
time</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">so there is no need for a console window</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="darkgreen"><grumbel_></td><td
bgcolor="darkgreen">beside that console window is an empty dummy under linux,
it doesn't do anything</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">so the #ifdef isn't really necesarry, I'll remove it</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td bgcolor="#DDDDDD">if
seen you have created a PingusResource::deinit</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">when does it get called?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">woops, I'll hook it up</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">there is quite a bit more that is init()'ed but not
deinited() </td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td bgcolor="#DDDDDD">I
had added a 'delete main_obj' in generic_main.cxx. where has the stuff gone of
generic_main.cxx?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">removed</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">generic main was just wrapper stuff, not really
needed</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">Hello Ingo</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">hi</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><henri></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">now the pingus deinit functions are called in
pingusMain::main</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">ok</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00"><--</td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">henri has
quit ()</td></tr>
+ </table> </body></html>
Added: htdocs/irc/2002-11-02.log
===================================================================
--- htdocs/irc/2002-11-02.log 2007-01-14 06:07:40 UTC (rev 2643)
+++ htdocs/irc/2002-11-02.log 2007-01-14 06:12:01 UTC (rev 2644)
@@ -0,0 +1,203 @@
+Nov 02 15:43:42 --> You are now talking on #pingus
+Nov 02 16:23:25 --> henri (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Nov 02 16:23:37 <henri> hallo
+Nov 02 16:24:28 <-- henri has quit (Client Quit)
+Nov 02 18:27:13 --- You have new mail (1 messages, 1118 bytes total).
+Nov 02 18:54:12 --> ginge (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Nov 02 18:54:19 <grumbel> hi
+Nov 02 18:58:28 --> henri (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Nov 02 18:58:48 <grumbel> hi henri
+Nov 02 18:58:55 --> gervase (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Nov 02 18:58:58 <henri> hello
+Nov 02 18:59:26 <henri> at 19.00 West European time is's going to start?
+Nov 02 18:59:30 <gervase> Hi!
+Nov 02 18:59:43 <ginge> about 5 mins time by my computer clock
+Nov 02 19:00:28 <grumbel> its getting fuller :)
+Nov 02 19:00:54 <gervase> Would it be best to start with a general
introduction of who each of us are?
+Nov 02 19:01:22 <henri> I'm Henri Manson, I've been busy removing
memory leaks in pingus
+Nov 02 19:01:57 <grumbel> henri: ah, still haven't commited your patch
+Nov 02 19:02:22 <gervase> I'm Gervase Lam. I've mostly been trying to
remove the playability bugs. But I would just like to get the bug list down.
+Nov 02 19:02:42 >grumbel< <algorithm>? is missing in button_panel.cxx
+Nov 02 19:03:58 <ginge> I'm Neil Mitchell, and I use Windows, so have
been doing Win specific things
+Nov 02 19:04:14 <henri> If anyone else is also using VC++ I've
implemented a memory allocation hook function so you can find where
+Nov 02 19:04:37 <henri> the memory was allocated one a leak is detected
when terminating Pingus
+Nov 02 19:05:06 <ginge> I've also got my own leak detector, I just
haven't run it with Pingus
+Nov 02 19:05:55 <henri> I've also noticed that some functions return
complete objects instead of references to them.
+Nov 02 19:06:06 <henri> that costs overhead
+Nov 02 19:06:09 <ginge> aren't there really good memory leak/access
error detectors for Linux, that are much better than Windows ones?
+Nov 02 19:08:02 <grumbel> ginge: valgrind should be good, but I havn't
really used it myself
+Nov 02 19:08:44 <gervase> Is there a vague agenda to this meeting?!
+Nov 02 19:08:47 <grumbel> henri: there are quite a few objects in ClanLib
that are refcounted, so that shouldn't be such a big problem
+Nov 02 19:09:06 <grumbel> gervase: no.
+Nov 02 19:11:21 <henri> I have a question. As a pingus beginner is
there some documentation available about the design of pingus?
+Nov 02 19:11:30 <henri> classes etc..
+Nov 02 19:12:19 <grumbel> henri: http://pingus.seul.org/development.html
+Nov 02 19:12:32 <grumbel> henri: that contains a bit, but most likly
quite a bit outdated
+Nov 02 19:12:47 <henri> thanks
+Nov 02 19:14:05 <grumbel> henri:
http://pingus.seul.org/sourcecodestructure.html
+Nov 02 19:14:14 <grumbel> henri: but this one was written before the big
cleanup
+Nov 02 19:14:15 <gervase> What is the plan with regards to getting out
the next release?
+Nov 02 19:14:44 <grumbel> gervase: tutorial island + a few normal levels
should be 100% working
+Nov 02 19:14:56 <grumbel> gervase: sound and music also needs to be
working correctly
+Nov 02 19:15:20 <grumbel> gervase: and actions should be finished
+Nov 02 19:15:41 <grumbel> gervase: level editor also needs to get a bit
polished
+Nov 02 19:16:30 <henri> I've made some changes so the sound works again
in Windows. The music is still hardcode in pingus. is the file
+Nov 02 19:16:52 <henri> format still .it. Why is MIDI not used?
+Nov 02 19:17:19 <gervase> It sounds like there is a long way to go. For
example, one of the "bugs" needs to be sorted are Sliders. The problem is that
there is still transitional animation for Sliders.
+Nov 02 19:18:50 <gervase> The (Linux) software cursor problem is also on
the list for the next release 0.5.0. Is this a ClanLib problem?
+Nov 02 19:20:03 <henri> Much memory leaks are caused by the ::instance
construct which initialises a static object variable with "the" object
+Nov 02 19:20:21 <henri> but that static variable is never freed.
+Nov 02 19:20:55 <gervase> With regards to MIDI, aren't we going with WAV
files because they are more flexible?
+Nov 02 19:22:49 <henri> Another question. Why isn't the pingus project
included in SourceForge?
+Nov 02 19:23:09 <henri> It can be handy to assign tasks to volunteers.
+Nov 02 19:25:26 --> grumbel_ (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Nov 02 19:25:38 <gervase> Well, the mailing lists (only) used to be on
SourceForge. But because of the 'poor' functionality they have, we moved this
summer.
+Nov 02 19:26:16 <gervase> I think one of the problems was one of the
"Reply" fields? Correct me on all counts if I am wrong.
+Nov 02 19:26:20 <grumbel_> hm, my xchat client staled again... looks like
I missed the last five minutes or so, could somebody copy&paste them to me?
+Nov 02 19:27:00 <henri> do you want to have to story so far?
+Nov 02 19:27:11 <gervase> How would you like this to be done? Could look
confusing on the screen.
+Nov 02 19:28:02 grumbel grumbel_ Nov 02 19:28:11 >grumbel_< test
+Nov 02 19:29:56 <grumbel_> henri: clanlib doesn't have midi support and
midi support in general under linux is quite ugly
+Nov 02 19:29:56 <grumbel_> beside that mod's sound a lot better, while not
wasting that much space as .ogg files which we also support
+Nov 02 19:29:56 <grumbel_> but most important, .it was the format which
the musican used to create the music
+Nov 02 19:29:56 <grumbel_> does anybody know how I can dump a backtrace
from within the programm without launching gdb?
+Nov 02 19:29:56 <grumbel_> IIRC there was some function/library to do it
+Nov 02 19:29:57 <grumbel_> but I can't remember which one
+Nov 02 19:29:59 <grumbel_> I am going to clean up the
PingusMain/GenericMain/AbstractMain mess a bit
+Nov 02 19:30:01 <grumbel_> ginge: could you compile a new win32-binary?
+Nov 02 19:31:32 <ginge> sure, I have one that is pre-tutorial world,
but with no major bugs
+Nov 02 19:31:54 <ginge> I can do another one, but at the moment I can't
run pingus (recent reformat), so I can't check it works first
+Nov 02 19:32:13 <grumbel_> henri: all those singleton instance() things
should probally get replaced with ::init()/::deinit() stuff
+Nov 02 19:32:48 <ginge> How shall I "move" the file to Pingus?
+Nov 02 19:33:56 <grumbel_> ginge: you should be able to use tha savanna
account to upload files
+Nov 02 19:34:06 <-- grumbel has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed
out))
+Nov 02 19:34:26 --> grumbel (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Nov 02 19:34:52 <ginge> that isn't very easy using Windows, it is
really setup for Linux, any easier way?
+Nov 02 19:35:33 <grumbel_> ginge: no
+Nov 02 19:35:44 <grumbel_> ginge: aren't there ftp clients that can speak
sftp?
+Nov 02 19:37:45 <grumbel_> ginge: you basically just need a key pair and
an client that speaks sftp, thats all
+Nov 02 19:37:51 <grumbel_>
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/
+Nov 02 19:38:12 <ginge> not that I have on me, I'll look into it again,
I have putty already, but before it just "didn't work"
+Nov 02 19:39:09 <grumbel_> if sftp fails, try plain scp, that should work
+Nov 02 19:41:47 <grumbel> gervase: the slider action can be left out for
the next release, its still to unfinished
+Nov 02 19:42:54 <ginge> what is currently happening with the website?
+Nov 02 19:44:43 <grumbel_> ginge: webpage is in savannas-html-CVS,
subdirectory redesign/
+Nov 02 19:45:05 <ginge> alright, I'll look into that - is it my XML one?
+Nov 02 19:46:32 <ginge> and what needs to be done for it to go from
redesign -> real
+Nov 02 19:47:20 <grumbel_> ginge: its your xml stuff
+Nov 02 19:47:29 <grumbel_> ginge: we need new content
+Nov 02 19:47:46 <grumbel_> ginge: and we should probally make the change
together with the new release
+Nov 02 19:50:37 <ginge> good idea
+Nov 02 19:52:36 <grumbel_>
http://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/index.php?group_id=2184&set=custom&advsrch=1&msort=0&report_id=110&category_id%5B%5D=0&bug_group_id%5B%5D=0&assigned_to%5B%5D=0&platform_version_id%5B%5D=0&status_id%5B%5D=1&release_id%5B%5D=0&plan_release_id%5B%5D=101&SUBMIT=Browse&chunksz=50
+Nov 02 19:52:49 <grumbel_> that should be the bugs that needs to get fixed
before the next release
+Nov 02 19:59:02 <henri> Niel: can you mail me (address@hidden) what
your activities are in windows?
+Nov 02 19:59:30 <ginge> activities? - you mean like my skills?
+Nov 02 20:01:29 <ginge> grumbel: Do you want people to work on the
website as anon then submit patches to the mailing list?
+Nov 02 20:02:30 <grumbel_> best would be if we could get a seperate
maintainer for the webpage
+Nov 02 20:02:39 <grumbel_> but patches should do for the moment
+Nov 02 20:03:03 <grumbel_> all people with a savanna account should also
be able to write directly to the html-CVS tree
+Nov 02 20:07:46 <ginge> but do you want us to commit directly or patch
to the mailing list?
+Nov 02 20:08:17 <grumbel> you can commit directly
+Nov 02 20:08:31 <grumbel> but if you want to do a larger change, discuss
at the mailinglist first
+Nov 02 20:08:33 --> ItsMeHarry (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Nov 02 20:09:31 <-- ItsMeHarry (address@hidden) has left #pingus
+Nov 02 20:24:53 <grumbel> we sooner or later need a start-up application
for pingus
+Nov 02 20:25:11 <grumbel> which allows player to select resolution,
fullscreen or not and things like that
+Nov 02 20:25:40 <grumbel> does anybody want to take that job?
+Nov 02 20:26:40 <gervase> How platform independent could this be?
+Nov 02 20:27:13 <grumbel> not sure
+Nov 02 20:27:35 <grumbel> either we write two seperate ones for linux and
win32 or we use wxwindows or something like that
+Nov 02 20:28:08 <gervase> I suppose dialog boxes like that used in the
Editor could be used.
+Nov 02 20:28:28 <grumbel> no
+Nov 02 20:28:45 <grumbel> thats already 'too late'
+Nov 02 20:29:00 <grumbel> the startup-app should use the native system
GUI tools
+Nov 02 20:29:14 <grumbel> since it should be used to avoid clanlib
throuble
+Nov 02 20:30:06 <ginge> basically an options dialog that writes out to
a settings file?
+Nov 02 20:31:21 <gnutzel> Maybe we could try wxwin Stuff?
+Nov 02 20:32:03 <gervase> If Pingus is going to use a system abstraction
class so that it is platform independent, it would be daft to have a platform
dependent start-up application.
+Nov 02 20:33:58 <gnutzel> Hm, I thought it would be good for a quick
standalone `Configurator` application.
+Nov 02 20:34:01 <grumbel_> gervase: getting 100% abstract from the
platform will never work
+Nov 02 20:34:29 <grumbel_> for example one might to chose the opengl
driver to use or things like that
+Nov 02 20:34:35 <henri> ginge: I'm back, I meant what you are doing
right now for the pingus project
+Nov 02 20:34:52 <grumbel_> ginge: yep, something like that
+Nov 02 20:35:01 <grumbel_> ginge: doesn't have to be very complicated
+Nov 02 20:35:24 <grumbel_> ginge: but could of course be a bit more
sophisticated to write down error logs and things like that
+Nov 02 20:35:41 <grumbel_> ginge: so that people can easily copy&paste
stuff when they want to write a bug report or things like that
+Nov 02 20:35:54 <ginge> I can do a system configurator for windows with
ease, just give me the stuff that wants doing etc.
+Nov 02 20:36:17 <ginge> I was also thinking of doing an installer for
Pingus on Windows, as most Win users won't want to either unzip or CVS
+Nov 02 20:37:08 <ginge> henri: nothing at the moment, other than what
i've offered in the previous two lines
+Nov 02 20:37:41 <gervase> Somebody e-mailed the list quite a while back
about a platform independent installer.
+Nov 02 20:38:40 <grumbel_> http://www.nullsoft.com/free/nsis/
+Nov 02 20:38:46 <grumbel_> this is a free installer application
+Nov 02 20:38:55 <ginge> That was what I was thinking of using, I have
done installers in that before
+Nov 02 20:39:14 <ginge> i don't think its platform independant though
+Nov 02 20:39:24 <gervase> The slight problem is that would mean deviating
from what is Linux's standard Red Hat Packaging system.
+Nov 02 20:39:55 <gervase> But then again I have StarOffice on Linux. And
the installer, which is not Red Hat, is fine.
+Nov 02 20:41:05 <grumbel_> gervase: I don't really like installers for
linux
+Nov 02 20:41:19 <grumbel_> well ok, I don't really like .deb and .rpm
either
+Nov 02 20:44:57 <ginge> g2g, can someone post the whole text of the
conversation to the website?
+Nov 02 20:50:57 <grumbel_> has somebody a complete log?
+Nov 02 20:51:43 <grumbel_> btw. should we write a worldmap editor or
continue to write them by hand?
+Nov 02 20:53:43 grumbel grumbel_ Nov 02 20:53:59 >grumbel< Ich haette eins
von **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 2 15:43:42 2002
+Nov 02 20:55:22 <grumbel> henri: I commited your memleak patch now
+Nov 02 20:55:33 --> ItsMeHarry (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Nov 02 20:55:34 <grumbel> henri: but I changed quite a few things in it
+Nov 02 20:55:52 <henri> I have a log of the conversation so for, should
I send it?
+Nov 02 20:56:30 <henri> grumbel: I'll update CVS this evening, what
have you changed?
+Nov 02 20:56:54 <grumbel> added destructor in controller and init/deinit
for PingusResource
+Nov 02 20:57:07 <grumbel> I also cleaned up the
Pingus/Abstract/GenericMain stuff
+Nov 02 20:57:34 <henri> grumbel: on what platform are you working?
+Nov 02 20:57:50 <grumbel_> linux
+Nov 02 20:58:08 <ItsMeHarry> why are there 2 grumbels?
+Nov 02 20:58:34 <ItsMeHarry> ich verstehe nicht
+Nov 02 20:58:49 <grumbel_> cause I have to xchats up and running
+Nov 02 20:59:01 <ItsMeHarry> two, ok :)
+Nov 02 21:03:05 <henri> when I use cvs update, must I also update
clanlib?
+Nov 02 21:05:18 <grumbel_> henri: no
+Nov 02 21:06:05 <grumbel_> henri: clanlib0.6 is pretty much staled, if
somebody important gets added i'll post it to the mailinglist
+Nov 02 21:08:09 --> y (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Nov 02 21:09:25 <-- gervase has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed
out))
+Nov 02 21:09:55 <-- y has quit (Client Quit)
+Nov 02 21:10:27 --> gervase (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Nov 02 21:12:14 <gervase> I've just had a look at the wxwin site
<http://www.wxwindows.org/>. It's a "cross platform GUI framework" system.
+Nov 02 21:13:30 --- ChanServ has changed the topic to: Pingus -
http://pingus.seul.org
+Nov 02 21:14:13 <-- ginge has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
+Nov 02 21:17:21 <henri> hello, when using should I always use
'checkout' and not 'update'? Now several contains things like '<<<<<<' and then
apparently some integration
+Nov 02 21:17:24 <henri> conflicts...
+Nov 02 21:17:33 <henri> when using cvs
+Nov 02 21:17:35 <grumbel> henri: rm the files and update again
+Nov 02 21:17:56 <grumbel> henri: unless you have something in the files
you want to keep, than you have to resolve the conflict manually
+Nov 02 21:18:35 <grumbel> this always happens if you change something,
send a patch, I'll change the patch a bit and commit -> bang, a conflict
+Nov 02 21:18:42 <grumbel> havn't really found a way to avoid that
+Nov 02 21:22:12 <-- ItsMeHarry has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+Nov 02 21:22:49 <henri> grumbel: Now I'm regetting the source from
CVS...
+Nov 02 21:31:10 <henri> grumbel: when this meeting is over I can send
you the text of it.
+Nov 02 21:31:30 <grumbel> henri: ok
+Nov 02 21:35:24 <henri> grumbel: done compiling, only 6 errors! One of
them is that generic_main.cxx isn't in the project. Can I remove it from the
project?
+Nov 02 21:36:03 <grumbel> yep, can be removed from project
+Nov 02 21:40:03 <henri> Here's another one which I already got in the
first place:
+Nov 02 21:40:15 <henri>
F:\User\pingus\Games\Pingus\src\worldobj_data_factory.cxx(159) : error C2065:
'XML_ELEMENT_PTR' : undeclared identifier
+Nov 02 21:42:02 <grumbel> its this XML_GET_LINE() macro which doesn't
seem to work under windows (or at least not with some versions of libxml)
+Nov 02 21:42:05 <henri> BTW: that's the only error left. I added
#include <ClanLib/Core/System/console_window.h>
+Nov 02 21:42:07 <grumbel> I'll add a workaround
+Nov 02 21:42:28 <henri> in pingus_main.cxx for CL_ConsoleWindow
+Nov 02 21:48:06 <henri> now everythings compiles again. In VC++ when
linking I add a 'd' to the end of every Clanlib library to indicate it's a
debugger
+Nov 02 21:48:09 <henri> library
+Nov 02 21:48:23 <grumbel_> commited a fix
+Nov 02 21:50:44 <henri> grumbel: Do you get a console window
automatically in Linux?
+Nov 02 21:53:26 <grumbel_> you launch stuff from the terminal most of the
time
+Nov 02 21:53:33 <grumbel_> so there is no need for a console window
+Nov 02 21:54:21 <grumbel_> beside that console window is an empty dummy
under linux, it doesn't do anything
+Nov 02 21:54:40 <grumbel> so the #ifdef isn't really necesarry, I'll
remove it
+Nov 02 22:02:00 <henri> if seen you have created a
PingusResource::deinit
+Nov 02 22:02:10 <henri> when does it get called?
+Nov 02 22:02:34 <grumbel> woops, I'll hook it up
+Nov 02 22:03:07 <grumbel> there is quite a bit more that is init()'ed but
not deinited()
+Nov 02 22:04:26 <henri> I had added a 'delete main_obj' in
generic_main.cxx. where has the stuff gone of generic_main.cxx?
+Nov 02 22:05:22 <grumbel> removed
+Nov 02 22:05:38 <grumbel> generic main was just wrapper stuff, not really
needed
+Nov 03 15:58:18 <henri> Hello Ingo
+Nov 03 16:15:34 <grumbel> hi
+Nov 03 16:23:33 <henri> now the pingus deinit functions are called in
pingusMain::main
+Nov 03 16:33:53 <grumbel> ok
+Nov 03 16:59:28 <-- henri has quit ()
Added: htdocs/irc/2003-03-01.html
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--- htdocs/irc/2003-03-01.html 2007-01-14 06:07:40 UTC (rev 2643)
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+<html> <head><title>Pingus IRC Log</title></head> <body> <h1></h1><table
width="80%" border="1" align="center"><tr><th>Nick</th><th>Message</th></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">You are
now talking on #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">Nehal
(address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel: does pingus work under win32?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">it should, but havn't tested it myself</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">oh</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">maybe ill try it</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">Did any if you listen to me?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td bgcolor="#DDDDDD">i
just came in</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">Are you Pingus Developers?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">me? nope</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel is</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">whjat about Him?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">hello?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel is, he probably is afk right now</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">'I have some ideas to make your project more
successful.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">yo?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">I'm a student in college</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">and I have some ideas I'd like to shhare with you.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">then go on and share :)</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td bgcolor="#CCCCCC">I
think you need to work on your semantics with Pingus.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">Pingus is an excellent idea</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">it just needs some concept level work</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">its the overall game design that is pretty ugly or not
existant at all</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td bgcolor="#CCCCCC">I
know.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Pingus is currentyl good at starting a level from command
line, the in game GUI is pretty much useless at the current point</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td bgcolor="#CCCCCC">I
also think its somewhat TOO Difficult.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">the game is too difficult? no i didnt find it so</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">"the game" doesn't exist at all</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">maybe some of the tutorial levels can be a little easier, but
other than that its ok</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">its an engine + a bunch of levels (some playable some
not)</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Zombie: are you using latest CVS?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">No, I'm using whats in Mandrake's Cooker</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">remove that and use CVS</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">Well, can we talk a little about concept level
semantics?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">after you tried CVS</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">it might already contain a few things you miss.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">where can I download the latest CVS?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">export
CVSROOT=':pserver:address@hidden:/usr/local/cvsroot'</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td bgcolor="#AAAAAA">
cvs logi</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">cvs -z3 checkout Games/Pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">s/logi/login/</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel: what compiler did u use when u last tested on win32,
and when was this?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Nehal: MSVC6</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Nehal: clanlib will give you throuble with other compilers,
might work with borland one's, but MSVC is the main one</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">ill modify clanlib to work with mingw</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">but one thing i hate about mingw, it is hella slow, much
slower than gcc for unix, and takes a lot of memory</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Zombie: have you downloaded CVS?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Zombie: more infos at <a
href="http://pingus.seul.org/development/cvs.html";>http://pingus.seul.org/development/cvs.html</a>
</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">libmikmod compiled and installed, now clanlib</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td bgcolor="#DDDDDD">or
does hermes come first, i keep forgetting?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">hermes first</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">crap, i need autogen</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel: can u send me configure for hermes?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><a
href="http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/tmp/Hermes-1.3.2-1.tar.bz2";>http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/tmp/Hermes-1.3.2-1.tar.bz2</a>
</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">contains the auto* stuff</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">thx</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Zombie: you there?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">er</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">Yes</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">Can I give some reccommendatioms?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">Zombie: dont ask, just say :)</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">Extract Data from the original Lemmings a Freecraft did from
Warcraft II</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">Cer
(address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00"><--</td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">Cer has
quit (Client Quit)</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Zombie: Pingus data looks much better than lemmings, so its
pretty pointless</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">Not it would not bee,</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">beside that Pingus is not even close to being gameplay
compatible with lemmings</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Zombie: done the CVS checkout?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Zombie: if so, read <a
href="http://pingus.seul.org/development/cvs.html,";>http://pingus.seul.org/development/cvs.html,</a>
contains now some infos on how to get a binary</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">I'm d/ling something else right now</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">hermes installed, 2 down 1 to go</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">but I'm more intrested in the semantics of the program as
opposed to</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">the details as to what you have made thusfar</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">what do you mean by semantics in this case?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">You've proven to me you have the technical know-how to build
this thing</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">What you don't know is how to appropriately document, and
nogstolgically </td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">advertise your project</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">I have decided that I currently have nothing to advertise,
that why its currently doesn't have much spotlight on it.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">Thats part of semantics.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">it already got enough of that way back, it didn't help
much</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">Your idea has some very good merit.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">and I know what its like to have a project that you really
want to do (Mega Man: Black Project) fail on me for technical reasons</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">but you have overcome the technical barrier</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">pingus actually never was a project 'that I really want to
do', it was more an accident.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">Oh?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">was more ment to be a short time project to learn a bit
programming, well turned out to take a bit longer than expected and got a bit
more attention than expected</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">dangit, configure for clanlib doesn't detect hemres</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Nehal: config.log is your friend... well, at least
sometimes</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td bgcolor="#DDDDDD">i
just usually edit configure and erase and 'exit' :)</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">s/and/any</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">Can I give you my experiance in this?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td bgcolor="#CCCCCC">I
wanted to make a massive (At the time MS-DOS) game called Mega Man the Rise of
the House of Hyperion.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td bgcolor="#CCCCCC">I
made a web page on this project</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td bgcolor="#CCCCCC">I
story boarded the wwhole thing</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td bgcolor="#CCCCCC">I
got voice actors</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td bgcolor="#CCCCCC">I
spent months Extracting sprites from Mega Man 1-6</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td bgcolor="#CCCCCC">I
built a main data file from a Doom WAD</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">But because I knew nothing about coding my project
failed</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">got that?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">yep</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">For you I think the reverse is true.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">Therefore you experiance "scope creep:</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">hmm, so far i had to make a modification, and im getting a
lot of warnings, but clanlib seems to be compiling fine</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Nehal: do you compile clanlib for X11 or DirectX?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel: well WIN32 or __WIN32__ or whatever is automatically
defined, so it is compiling with directx, or i would certainly get an error by
now :-)</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">actually i know it is, cos it couldnt find d3d.h , i had to
comment that line out, i have directx.h and dinput.h and all the others, i
guess d3d.h isn't needed anyways</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">more than 100 megs swap in use :(</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">gervase
(address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">hi gervase</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Hello!</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Zombie: so what do you think I should do different?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">hold on</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td bgcolor="#DDDDDD">oh
crap, clanlib does not go well with mingw</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">:Just managed to compile the latest cvs about 10 minutes
ago</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">and I keep on getting lots of "frame below zero: nan"
or</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">"frame below zero: inf"</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Could this be due to a bad delta being passed into
Sprite::update() ?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">gervase: is the frame-skip stuff</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">gervase: which should probally be completly rewriten</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">pingus doesn't behave very well on slow systems</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">and even on fast systems with a little CPU load it gets quite
choopy</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">there are completely different source directories for
win32/unix , it is not easy getting clanlib to work...</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">abcdefghi
(address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">hi when dose the mettin start?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">kind of</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">well i was think about how we could make pingus better and i
thought that mabey we could incorperate the old dos games in to pingus like in
freecraft</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">back</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">lunch is good :)</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">abcdefghi: no, that would make things much worse.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">why?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">or is it just me who can't stand freecraft gfx for more than
five seconds?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">Good, everyone is here</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"><Zombie></td><td
bgcolor="#CCCCCC">hm?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">beside that there is copyright throuble and resolution
throuble 320x200, doesn't look that good on a 800x600 screen</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel: most freecraft uses use the wc2 graphics, and yes
the fcmp graphics suck, they are improving though</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">s/uses/users</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">true well that shows hom much i think things through</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Nehal: yeah, but thats kind of the problem, cause nearly
everybody can use wc2, the free ones are lagging behind</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">yep</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel: right</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">and I think redoing something that is already done, is not
worth doing at all, especially games.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">is there a banner for pingus that people can put around there
sites?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">yes i guess</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">we have banners somewhere, but not available on the webpage
at the moment.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">well we could get them on the website and then people like my
dad can put them on their sites</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">how far are we to the next relese of pingus?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">as close as ever I think, its just a matter of sitting down
for two weeks and get it finished</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">well that is good how much of the gui is hooked out to the
servers options?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">the gui is more or less working, its just a matter of
striping out the stuff that is not working</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">like option menu and contrib-screens</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">k</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">how many of the levels are hooked out to the gui?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">15-20</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">oh</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">what can people like me do to hook up more levels to the
gui?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">nothing, the next release will not have more than 15-20
levels</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">i why that few?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">-i</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">because we want to start out small</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">that makes sense</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">will you beable to download the other levels if you want
to?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">no</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">k</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">well, people can always use CVS to get everything, but there
won't be any public visible download button</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">true</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">grumbel: ever played lemmings 2?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">no i can't find it.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">Nehal: a bit, but not that much</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">abcdefghi: <a
href="http://pingus.seul.org/development/cvs.html";>http://pingus.seul.org/development/cvs.html</a>
</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">k</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">only my win part of this box has a connection to the internet
right now but i will hook up linux to the internet soon.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">gervase: have seen the test apps in contrib/ ?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Found it. It basically just puts a "sprite" on the screen
and goes through each of the frames, if I read the code correctly.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">gervase: thats the not so usefull one, the soundtest/ thing
is more intersting</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">gervase: can be used to test pingus, not so bug free, sound
system</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">what parts of pingus are working that weren't working in the
last verision?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">can't remember, lots of stuff</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">cool</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">is there an irc client for linux</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">abcdefghi: haha</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">abcdefghi: tons of, from telnet, to xchat, whatever you
like</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">oh so you can just login with telnet?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">if you have the IRC-RFC at hand, yep</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">what is that and where can i get it?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">abcdefghi: xchat, bitchx, kvirc, sirc, irssi, ircII, savirc,
xirssi, the list goes on...</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">xchat is the best though :)</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">k</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00"><--</td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">abcdefghi
has quit ()</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Got an error while compiling soundtest</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">so, anybody feeling the need to cleanup the pingus
development section on the webpage?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">gervase: which error?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">"/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lclanVorbis"</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Is it reqd?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">remove it from the makefile</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">its not required for pingus, but soundtest/ doesn't have a
full blown configure script</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">abcdefghi
(address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">how do i use xchat?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">to connect to irc</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">start it and use it, I would say</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">k</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">xchat is a pretty straight forward clicky-app</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">k good</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">in the faq for pingus it says "A game manual along with a
tutorial is planed and might be released together with the next version" is
that still planed?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">of course its planed, the question is if somebody is writing
it</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">is anybody writing it?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Is the game manual different from the web manual?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#999999">gervase grumbel Mar 01 22:49:09 gervase
grumbel Mar 01 22:49:26 <grumbel></td><td bgcolor="#999999">gervase:
maybe another style sheet or so to make it look better when seperated from the
webpage, but same content</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">k</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">well i gtg</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBBBB"><abcdefghi></td><td
bgcolor="#BBBBBB">bye</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00"><--</td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">abcdefghi
has quit ()</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Got a problem with soundtest</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Ln 1: "[DebugStream::Buffer fallback stream] [Output]
Initializing ClanLib-Sound"</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Ln 2: "[DebugStream::Buffer fallback stream] [Output]
Initializing ClanLib-MikMod"</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">[DebugStream::Buffer fallback stream] [Output] PathManager:
music/music/pingus-1.it -> ../../data//music/music/pingus-1</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><Nehal></td><td
bgcolor="#DDDDDD">gg</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">.it"</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Ln 4: "[DebugStream::Buffer fallback stream] [Output]
PingusSoundReal: Playing music: ../../data//music/music/pingus-1.it"</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Ln 4: "Aborted"</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Sorry Ln 5: "Aborted"</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">you have newest CVS?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00"><--</td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">Nehal has
quit ("Client exiting")</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">changed the music/ prefix a bit</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">roadmap is now a bit updated <a
href="http://pingus.seul.org/development/roadmap.html";>http://pingus.seul.org/development/roadmap.html</a>
</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Got rid of "music/" prefix bits</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">But now get the following errors</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">"PathManager: music/pingus-1.it ->
/music/pingus-1.it"</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">"PingusSoundReal: Playing music: /music/pingus-1.it"</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">"Aborted"</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">is your pingus current CVS?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">I changed the location of the pathmanager stuff a few days
ago</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">it was done multiple times in some places, which didn't work
to well.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">I updated at about 20:30 today.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">hm</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">pathfinder is doing something wrong than</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">gervase: is your pingus compile also current?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">since the contrib/ stuff simply grabs the object files from
the src/ directory without checking for a necesarry rebuild</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">std::string comp_path = base_path + "/" +
relative_path;</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">if base_path is empty you get your behaviour</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">eik, stupid me</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00"><--</td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">gervase
has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#BBBB00">--></td><td bgcolor="#BBBB00">gervase
(address@hidden) has joined #pingus</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">fix for soundtest is in CVS</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Managed to get my own fix to soundtest to work, but too
late!</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">I removed one too many of the "music/" prefixes.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Just wonder, is it worth making sound test be able to play
music 1 to 9 and not just 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">doesn't really matter</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">was just to see if you could play multiple music tracks after
another without memleak or lockups</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">music is working ok in this matter</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">but sound is not, its memleaking quite a lot</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">and pingus-massdestruction sounds ugly, since to many .wav's
are played at the same time</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">you can reproduce that by right-clicking in the soundtest
window</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Well. It's the first ever time I've ever heard any of the
music!</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">With regards to the sound, the worst thing that happens is
the "FIXME" msg appears.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">look at 'top' and you see its memleaking</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">The sound pans well.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">its not as worse as mem-leaking music, but still fills the
memory</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">we need the resource manager to handle music and sound
stuff</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">When you say the top, the top of what?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">currently we are just 'new'ing Clanlib sound streams and
never deleting them</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">the programm 'top'</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">memleaks are good to see there when you run
soundtest</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">even so valgrind or some real memory debuger will give you
much more acurat results</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">btw. animtest is just meant to test sprites for there
frame-per-second when they look best, isn't really a finished programm and
didn't help all that much, but might come handy one time</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Unless I am missing something, couldn't the new statements be
moved outside?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">You can then pass the newly created object by ptr.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">You then put delete in the destructor.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">we need a smart_ptr wrapper class around the music
stuff</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">sound stuff I mean</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">music is ok as it is, since we only allocate one music file
at once and destroy it if another music gets started</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">sound effects could simply be allocated once at system
startup</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">since we only have a handfull of them, then stuffed in a
std::map<> and deleted at sound shutdown</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">so we could reuse the sound effects at least</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">I assume that you would replace PingusSoundReal with the
std::map<>,</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">which PingusSound would search?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">The std::map<> would be a member of
PingusSound.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">No need for smart_ptr then.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">problem is that this still doesn't solve the problem with
playing to many of the same sound at once</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">so a seperate class is needed</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">but std::map solution would be pretty simple to implement and
probally enough for the first release</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">Does the too many sounds problem only occur at Armageddon
time?</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">If only one sound is allowed to play at the same time, I
think Armageddon would sound silly.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">I think you would only hear 2 "Oh-no"s, when in fact 50
Pingus are about to die.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">My ISP's auto disconnect will be kicking into action in
literally 1 a minute.</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#EEEEEE"><gervase></td><td
bgcolor="#EEEEEE">So, I'll bid you all farewell...</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">it doesn't have to be 50 sounds</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">but probally 5 or so </td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">playing the same sound over and over again, results in some
kind of 'echo'-like sound</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">which sounds completly wrong and broken</td></tr>
+<td align="right" bgcolor="#AAAAAA"><grumbel></td><td
bgcolor="#AAAAAA">good night, going to sleep "Real Soon Now"[tm]</td></tr>
+ </table> </body></html>
Added: htdocs/irc/2003-03-01.log
===================================================================
--- htdocs/irc/2003-03-01.log 2007-01-14 06:07:40 UTC (rev 2643)
+++ htdocs/irc/2003-03-01.log 2007-01-14 06:12:01 UTC (rev 2644)
@@ -0,0 +1,291 @@
+Mar 01 18:57:08 --> You are now talking on #pingus
+Mar 01 19:14:14 --> Nehal (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Mar 01 19:14:31 <Nehal> grumbel: does pingus work under win32?
+Mar 01 19:34:19 <grumbel> it should, but havn't tested it myself
+Mar 01 20:00:36 <Nehal> oh
+Mar 01 20:01:10 <Nehal> maybe ill try it
+Mar 01 20:38:41 <Zombie> Did any if you listen to me?
+Mar 01 20:39:02 <Nehal> i just came in
+Mar 01 20:39:18 <Zombie> Are you Pingus Developers?
+Mar 01 20:39:30 <Nehal> me? nope
+Mar 01 20:39:34 <Nehal> grumbel is
+Mar 01 20:39:38 <Zombie> whjat about Him?
+Mar 01 20:41:11 <Zombie> hello?
+Mar 01 20:41:25 <Nehal> grumbel is, he probably is afk right now
+Mar 01 20:42:24 <Zombie> 'I have some ideas to make your project more
successful.
+Mar 01 20:42:51 <grumbel> yo?
+Mar 01 20:43:21 <Zombie> I'm a student in college
+Mar 01 20:43:34 <Zombie> and I have some ideas I'd like to shhare with
you.
+Mar 01 20:43:47 <grumbel> then go on and share :)
+Mar 01 20:44:10 <Zombie> I think you need to work on your semantics with
Pingus.
+Mar 01 20:45:19 <Zombie> Pingus is an excellent idea
+Mar 01 20:45:37 <Zombie> it just needs some concept level work
+Mar 01 20:46:41 <grumbel> its the overall game design that is pretty ugly
or not existant at all
+Mar 01 20:47:06 <Zombie> I know.
+Mar 01 20:47:15 <grumbel> Pingus is currentyl good at starting a level
from command line, the in game GUI is pretty much useless at the current point
+Mar 01 20:47:43 <Zombie> I also think its somewhat TOO Difficult.
+Mar 01 20:47:59 <Nehal> the game is too difficult? no i didnt find it so
+Mar 01 20:48:10 <grumbel> "the game" doesn't exist at all
+Mar 01 20:48:22 <Nehal> maybe some of the tutorial levels can be a
little easier, but other than that its ok
+Mar 01 20:48:27 <grumbel> its an engine + a bunch of levels (some
playable some not)
+Mar 01 20:48:48 <grumbel> Zombie: are you using latest CVS?
+Mar 01 20:49:05 <Zombie> No, I'm using whats in Mandrake's Cooker
+Mar 01 20:49:20 <grumbel> remove that and use CVS
+Mar 01 20:49:53 <Zombie> Well, can we talk a little about concept level
semantics?
+Mar 01 20:50:07 <grumbel> after you tried CVS
+Mar 01 20:50:21 <grumbel> it might already contain a few things you miss.
+Mar 01 20:50:47 <Zombie> where can I download the latest CVS?
+Mar 01 20:51:02 <grumbel> export
CVSROOT=':pserver:address@hidden:/usr/local/cvsroot'
+Mar 01 20:51:06 <grumbel> cvs logi
+Mar 01 20:51:11 <grumbel> cvs -z3 checkout Games/Pingus
+Mar 01 20:51:22 <grumbel> s/logi/login/
+Mar 01 20:53:29 <Nehal> grumbel: what compiler did u use when u last
tested on win32, and when was this?
+Mar 01 20:53:44 <grumbel> Nehal: MSVC6
+Mar 01 20:54:12 <grumbel> Nehal: clanlib will give you throuble with
other compilers, might work with borland one's, but MSVC is the main one
+Mar 01 20:54:40 <Nehal> ill modify clanlib to work with mingw
+Mar 01 20:55:36 <Nehal> but one thing i hate about mingw, it is hella
slow, much slower than gcc for unix, and takes a lot of memory
+Mar 01 21:04:07 <grumbel> Zombie: have you downloaded CVS?
+Mar 01 21:04:12 <grumbel> Zombie: more infos at
http://pingus.seul.org/development/cvs.html
+Mar 01 21:04:22 <Nehal> libmikmod compiled and installed, now clanlib
+Mar 01 21:04:31 <Nehal> or does hermes come first, i keep forgetting?
+Mar 01 21:07:40 <grumbel> hermes first
+Mar 01 21:08:44 <Nehal> crap, i need autogen
+Mar 01 21:08:51 <Nehal> grumbel: can u send me configure for hermes?
+Mar 01 21:12:30 <grumbel>
http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/tmp/Hermes-1.3.2-1.tar.bz2
+Mar 01 21:12:43 <grumbel> contains the auto* stuff
+Mar 01 21:13:02 <Nehal> thx
+Mar 01 21:17:47 <grumbel> Zombie: you there?
+Mar 01 21:18:58 <Zombie> er
+Mar 01 21:19:00 <Zombie> Yes
+Mar 01 21:19:21 <Zombie> Can I give some reccommendatioms?
+Mar 01 21:21:30 <Nehal> Zombie: dont ask, just say :)
+Mar 01 21:21:57 <Zombie> Extract Data from the original Lemmings a
Freecraft did from Warcraft II
+Mar 01 21:22:11 --> Cer (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Mar 01 21:22:19 <-- Cer has quit (Client Quit)
+Mar 01 21:23:01 <grumbel> Zombie: Pingus data looks much better than
lemmings, so its pretty pointless
+Mar 01 21:23:18 <Zombie> Not it would not bee,
+Mar 01 21:23:43 <grumbel> beside that Pingus is not even close to being
gameplay compatible with lemmings
+Mar 01 21:24:11 <grumbel> Zombie: done the CVS checkout?
+Mar 01 21:24:34 <grumbel> Zombie: if so, read
http://pingus.seul.org/development/cvs.html, contains now some infos on how to
get a binary
+Mar 01 21:25:42 <Zombie> I'm d/ling something else right now
+Mar 01 21:26:01 <Nehal> hermes installed, 2 down 1 to go
+Mar 01 21:26:05 <Zombie> but I'm more intrested in the semantics of the
program as opposed to
+Mar 01 21:26:24 <Zombie> the details as to what you have made thusfar
+Mar 01 21:26:39 <grumbel> what do you mean by semantics in this case?
+Mar 01 21:26:54 <Zombie> You've proven to me you have the technical
know-how to build this thing
+Mar 01 21:27:36 <Zombie> What you don't know is how to appropriately
document, and nogstolgically
+Mar 01 21:27:51 <Zombie> advertise your project
+Mar 01 21:28:31 <grumbel> I have decided that I currently have nothing to
advertise, that why its currently doesn't have much spotlight on it.
+Mar 01 21:28:54 <Zombie> Thats part of semantics.
+Mar 01 21:28:54 <grumbel> it already got enough of that way back, it
didn't help much
+Mar 01 21:29:14 <Zombie> Your idea has some very good merit.
+Mar 01 21:30:04 <Zombie> and I know what its like to have a project that
you really want to do (Mega Man: Black Project) fail on me for technical reasons
+Mar 01 21:30:51 <Zombie> but you have overcome the technical barrier
+Mar 01 21:31:09 <grumbel> pingus actually never was a project 'that I
really want to do', it was more an accident.
+Mar 01 21:31:24 <Zombie> Oh?
+Mar 01 21:32:26 <grumbel> was more ment to be a short time project to
learn a bit programming, well turned out to take a bit longer than expected and
got a bit more attention than expected
+Mar 01 21:32:35 <Nehal> dangit, configure for clanlib doesn't detect
hemres
+Mar 01 21:33:21 <grumbel> Nehal: config.log is your friend... well, at
least sometimes
+Mar 01 21:34:03 <Nehal> i just usually edit configure and erase and
'exit' :)
+Mar 01 21:34:06 <Nehal> s/and/any
+Mar 01 21:35:15 <Zombie> Can I give you my experiance in this?
+Mar 01 21:36:45 <Zombie> I wanted to make a massive (At the time MS-DOS)
game called Mega Man the Rise of the House of Hyperion.
+Mar 01 21:36:58 <Zombie> I made a web page on this project
+Mar 01 21:37:17 <Zombie> I story boarded the wwhole thing
+Mar 01 21:38:05 <Zombie> I got voice actors
+Mar 01 21:38:24 <Zombie> I spent months Extracting sprites from Mega
Man 1-6
+Mar 01 21:41:30 <Zombie> I built a main data file from a Doom WAD
+Mar 01 21:42:55 <Zombie> But because I knew nothing about coding my
project failed
+Mar 01 21:43:42 <Zombie> got that?
+Mar 01 21:43:44 <grumbel> yep
+Mar 01 21:44:05 <Zombie> For you I think the reverse is true.
+Mar 01 21:44:16 <Zombie> Therefore you experiance "scope creep:
+Mar 01 21:44:25 <Nehal> hmm, so far i had to make a modification, and
im getting a lot of warnings, but clanlib seems to be compiling fine
+Mar 01 21:45:10 <grumbel> Nehal: do you compile clanlib for X11 or
DirectX?
+Mar 01 21:46:03 <Nehal> grumbel: well WIN32 or __WIN32__ or whatever is
automatically defined, so it is compiling with directx, or i would certainly
get an error by now :-)
+Mar 01 21:46:34 <Nehal> actually i know it is, cos it couldnt find
d3d.h , i had to comment that line out, i have directx.h and dinput.h and all
the others, i guess d3d.h isn't needed anyways
+Mar 01 21:47:21 <Nehal> more than 100 megs swap in use :(
+Mar 01 21:57:50 --> gervase (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Mar 01 21:58:52 <grumbel> hi gervase
+Mar 01 21:58:59 <gervase> Hello!
+Mar 01 21:59:08 <grumbel> Zombie: so what do you think I should do
different?
+Mar 01 22:01:34 <Zombie> hold on
+Mar 01 22:01:54 <Nehal> oh crap, clanlib does not go well with mingw
+Mar 01 22:05:24 <gervase> :Just managed to compile the latest cvs about
10 minutes ago
+Mar 01 22:06:06 <gervase> and I keep on getting lots of "frame below
zero: nan" or
+Mar 01 22:06:12 <gervase> "frame below zero: inf"
+Mar 01 22:06:36 <gervase> Could this be due to a bad delta being passed
into Sprite::update() ?
+Mar 01 22:07:18 <grumbel> gervase: is the frame-skip stuff
+Mar 01 22:07:28 <grumbel> gervase: which should probally be completly
rewriten
+Mar 01 22:07:46 <grumbel> pingus doesn't behave very well on slow systems
+Mar 01 22:08:06 <grumbel> and even on fast systems with a little CPU load
it gets quite choopy
+Mar 01 22:09:33 <Nehal> there are completely different source
directories for win32/unix , it is not easy getting clanlib to work...
+Mar 01 22:09:34 --> abcdefghi (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Mar 01 22:09:48 <abcdefghi> hi when dose the mettin start?
+Mar 01 22:09:59 <grumbel> kind of
+Mar 01 22:11:27 <abcdefghi> well i was think about how we could make pingus
better and i thought that mabey we could incorperate the old dos games in to
pingus like in freecraft
+Mar 01 22:11:32 <Zombie> back
+Mar 01 22:11:37 <Zombie> lunch is good :)
+Mar 01 22:12:18 <grumbel> abcdefghi: no, that would make things much
worse.
+Mar 01 22:12:31 <abcdefghi> why?
+Mar 01 22:12:35 <grumbel> or is it just me who can't stand freecraft gfx
for more than five seconds?
+Mar 01 22:12:37 <Zombie> Good, everyone is here
+Mar 01 22:12:50 <Zombie> hm?
+Mar 01 22:13:10 <grumbel> beside that there is copyright throuble and
resolution throuble 320x200, doesn't look that good on a 800x600 screen
+Mar 01 22:13:15 <Nehal> grumbel: most freecraft uses use the wc2
graphics, and yes the fcmp graphics suck, they are improving though
+Mar 01 22:13:23 <Nehal> s/uses/users
+Mar 01 22:13:47 <abcdefghi> true well that shows hom much i think things
through
+Mar 01 22:13:54 <grumbel> Nehal: yeah, but thats kind of the problem,
cause nearly everybody can use wc2, the free ones are lagging behind
+Mar 01 22:14:07 <abcdefghi> yep
+Mar 01 22:14:09 <Nehal> grumbel: right
+Mar 01 22:14:31 <grumbel> and I think redoing something that is already
done, is not worth doing at all, especially games.
+Mar 01 22:15:02 <abcdefghi> is there a banner for pingus that people can
put around there sites?
+Mar 01 22:15:09 <abcdefghi> yes i guess
+Mar 01 22:16:05 <grumbel> we have banners somewhere, but not available on
the webpage at the moment.
+Mar 01 22:16:42 <abcdefghi> well we could get them on the website and then
people like my dad can put them on their sites
+Mar 01 22:17:12 <abcdefghi> how far are we to the next relese of pingus?
+Mar 01 22:17:45 <grumbel> as close as ever I think, its just a matter of
sitting down for two weeks and get it finished
+Mar 01 22:18:20 <abcdefghi> well that is good how much of the gui is hooked
out to the servers options?
+Mar 01 22:20:20 <grumbel> the gui is more or less working, its just a
matter of striping out the stuff that is not working
+Mar 01 22:20:30 <grumbel> like option menu and contrib-screens
+Mar 01 22:20:48 <abcdefghi> k
+Mar 01 22:21:26 <abcdefghi> how many of the levels are hooked out to the
gui?
+Mar 01 22:21:41 <grumbel> 15-20
+Mar 01 22:21:48 <abcdefghi> oh
+Mar 01 22:23:33 <abcdefghi> what can people like me do to hook up more
levels to the gui?
+Mar 01 22:24:16 <grumbel> nothing, the next release will not have more
than 15-20 levels
+Mar 01 22:24:56 <abcdefghi> i why that few?
+Mar 01 22:25:05 <abcdefghi> -i
+Mar 01 22:25:49 <grumbel> because we want to start out small
+Mar 01 22:26:19 <abcdefghi> that makes sense
+Mar 01 22:27:01 <abcdefghi> will you beable to download the other levels if
you want to?
+Mar 01 22:27:17 <grumbel> no
+Mar 01 22:27:21 <abcdefghi> k
+Mar 01 22:27:45 <grumbel> well, people can always use CVS to get
everything, but there won't be any public visible download button
+Mar 01 22:27:56 <abcdefghi> true
+Mar 01 22:28:24 <Nehal> grumbel: ever played lemmings 2?
+Mar 01 22:28:39 <abcdefghi> no i can't find it.
+Mar 01 22:29:08 <grumbel> Nehal: a bit, but not that much
+Mar 01 22:29:31 <grumbel> abcdefghi:
http://pingus.seul.org/development/cvs.html
+Mar 01 22:29:46 <abcdefghi> k
+Mar 01 22:31:20 <abcdefghi> only my win part of this box has a connection
to the internet right now but i will hook up linux to the internet soon.
+Mar 01 22:32:59 <grumbel> gervase: have seen the test apps in contrib/ ?
+Mar 01 22:37:30 <gervase> Found it. It basically just puts a "sprite" on
the screen and goes through each of the frames, if I read the code correctly.
+Mar 01 22:38:34 <grumbel> gervase: thats the not so usefull one, the
soundtest/ thing is more intersting
+Mar 01 22:40:05 <grumbel> gervase: can be used to test pingus, not so bug
free, sound system
+Mar 01 22:40:17 <abcdefghi> what parts of pingus are working that weren't
working in the last verision?
+Mar 01 22:41:01 <grumbel> can't remember, lots of stuff
+Mar 01 22:41:08 <abcdefghi> cool
+Mar 01 22:41:23 <abcdefghi> is there an irc client for linux
+Mar 01 22:41:40 <Nehal> abcdefghi: haha
+Mar 01 22:41:46 <abcdefghi> ?
+Mar 01 22:41:48 <grumbel> abcdefghi: tons of, from telnet, to xchat,
whatever you like
+Mar 01 22:42:09 <abcdefghi> oh so you can just login with telnet?
+Mar 01 22:42:31 <grumbel> if you have the IRC-RFC at hand, yep
+Mar 01 22:42:46 <abcdefghi> what is that and where can i get it?
+Mar 01 22:42:59 <Nehal> abcdefghi: xchat, bitchx, kvirc, sirc, irssi,
ircII, savirc, xirssi, the list goes on...
+Mar 01 22:43:05 <Nehal> xchat is the best though :)
+Mar 01 22:43:18 <abcdefghi> k
+Mar 01 22:43:40 <-- abcdefghi has quit ()
+Mar 01 22:44:17 <gervase> Got an error while compiling soundtest
+Mar 01 22:44:28 <grumbel> so, anybody feeling the need to cleanup the
pingus development section on the webpage?
+Mar 01 22:44:33 <grumbel> gervase: which error?
+Mar 01 22:44:37 <gervase> "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lclanVorbis"
+Mar 01 22:44:41 <gervase> Is it reqd?
+Mar 01 22:44:55 <grumbel> remove it from the makefile
+Mar 01 22:45:14 <grumbel> its not required for pingus, but soundtest/
doesn't have a full blown configure script
+Mar 01 22:45:24 --> abcdefghi (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Mar 01 22:45:44 <abcdefghi> how do i use xchat?
+Mar 01 22:45:51 <abcdefghi> to connect to irc
+Mar 01 22:45:57 <grumbel> start it and use it, I would say
+Mar 01 22:46:03 <abcdefghi> k
+Mar 01 22:46:17 <grumbel> xchat is a pretty straight forward clicky-app
+Mar 01 22:46:29 <abcdefghi> k good
+Mar 01 22:47:24 <abcdefghi> in the faq for pingus it says "A game manual
along with a tutorial is planed and might be released together with the next
version" is that still planed?
+Mar 01 22:48:17 <grumbel> of course its planed, the question is if
somebody is writing it
+Mar 01 22:48:41 <abcdefghi> is anybody writing it?
+Mar 01 22:48:45 <gervase> Is the game manual different from the web
manual?
+Mar 01 22:49:09 gervase grumbel Mar 01 22:49:09 gervase grumbel Mar 01
22:49:26 <grumbel> gervase: maybe another style sheet or so to make it
look better when seperated from the webpage, but same content
+Mar 01 22:49:38 <abcdefghi> k
+Mar 01 22:50:32 <abcdefghi> well i gtg
+Mar 01 22:50:35 <abcdefghi> bye
+Mar 01 22:50:41 <-- abcdefghi has quit ()
+Mar 01 22:51:12 <gervase> Got a problem with soundtest
+Mar 01 22:51:31 <gervase> Ln 1: "[DebugStream::Buffer fallback stream]
[Output] Initializing ClanLib-Sound"
+Mar 01 22:51:43 <gervase> Ln 2: "[DebugStream::Buffer fallback stream]
[Output] Initializing ClanLib-MikMod"
+Mar 01 22:52:00 <gervase> [DebugStream::Buffer fallback stream] [Output]
PathManager: music/music/pingus-1.it -> ../../data//music/music/pingus-1
+Mar 01 22:52:03 <Nehal> gg
+Mar 01 22:52:14 <gervase> .it"
+Mar 01 22:52:39 <gervase> Ln 4: "[DebugStream::Buffer fallback stream]
[Output] PingusSoundReal: Playing music: ../../data//music/music/pingus-1.it"
+Mar 01 22:52:58 <gervase> Ln 4: "Aborted"
+Mar 01 22:53:15 <gervase> Sorry Ln 5: "Aborted"
+Mar 01 22:54:06 <grumbel> you have newest CVS?
+Mar 01 22:54:24 <-- Nehal has quit ("Client exiting")
+Mar 01 22:54:27 <grumbel> changed the music/ prefix a bit
+Mar 01 23:10:28 <grumbel> roadmap is now a bit updated
http://pingus.seul.org/development/roadmap.html
+Mar 01 23:15:01 <gervase> Got rid of "music/" prefix bits
+Mar 01 23:15:13 <gervase> But now get the following errors
+Mar 01 23:15:31 <gervase> "PathManager: music/pingus-1.it ->
/music/pingus-1.it"
+Mar 01 23:16:00 <gervase> "PingusSoundReal: Playing music:
/music/pingus-1.it"
+Mar 01 23:16:02 <gervase> "Aborted"
+Mar 01 23:16:23 <grumbel> is your pingus current CVS?
+Mar 01 23:16:37 <grumbel> I changed the location of the pathmanager stuff
a few days ago
+Mar 01 23:16:55 <grumbel> it was done multiple times in some places,
which didn't work to well.
+Mar 01 23:16:59 <gervase> I updated at about 20:30 today.
+Mar 01 23:21:38 <grumbel> hm
+Mar 01 23:24:06 <grumbel> pathfinder is doing something wrong than
+Mar 01 23:24:48 <grumbel> gervase: is your pingus compile also current?
+Mar 01 23:25:16 <grumbel> since the contrib/ stuff simply grabs the
object files from the src/ directory without checking for a necesarry rebuild
+Mar 01 23:25:58 <grumbel> std::string comp_path = base_path + "/" +
relative_path;
+Mar 01 23:26:11 <grumbel> if base_path is empty you get your behaviour
+Mar 01 23:29:24 <grumbel> eik, stupid me
+Mar 01 23:30:10 <-- gervase has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
+Mar 01 23:40:54 --> gervase (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+Mar 01 23:45:59 <grumbel> fix for soundtest is in CVS
+Mar 02 00:11:01 <gervase> Managed to get my own fix to soundtest to work,
but too late!
+Mar 02 00:11:23 <gervase> I removed one too many of the "music/" prefixes.
+Mar 02 00:12:46 <gervase> Just wonder, is it worth making sound test be
able to play music 1 to 9 and not just 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6?
+Mar 02 00:19:28 <grumbel> doesn't really matter
+Mar 02 00:19:47 <grumbel> was just to see if you could play multiple
music tracks after another without memleak or lockups
+Mar 02 00:20:07 <grumbel> music is working ok in this matter
+Mar 02 00:20:17 <grumbel> but sound is not, its memleaking quite a lot
+Mar 02 00:20:35 <grumbel> and pingus-massdestruction sounds ugly, since
to many .wav's are played at the same time
+Mar 02 00:20:49 <grumbel> you can reproduce that by right-clicking in the
soundtest window
+Mar 02 00:21:48 <gervase> Well. It's the first ever time I've ever heard
any of the music!
+Mar 02 00:22:20 <gervase> With regards to the sound, the worst thing that
happens is the "FIXME" msg appears.
+Mar 02 00:22:42 <grumbel> look at 'top' and you see its memleaking
+Mar 02 00:22:45 <gervase> The sound pans well.
+Mar 02 00:22:56 <grumbel> its not as worse as mem-leaking music, but
still fills the memory
+Mar 02 00:24:15 <grumbel> we need the resource manager to handle music
and sound stuff
+Mar 02 00:24:24 <gervase> When you say the top, the top of what?
+Mar 02 00:24:32 <grumbel> currently we are just 'new'ing Clanlib sound
streams and never deleting them
+Mar 02 00:24:45 <grumbel> the programm 'top'
+Mar 02 00:25:32 <grumbel> memleaks are good to see there when you run
soundtest
+Mar 02 00:25:51 <grumbel> even so valgrind or some real memory debuger
will give you much more acurat results
+Mar 02 00:27:46 <grumbel> btw. animtest is just meant to test sprites for
there frame-per-second when they look best, isn't really a finished programm
and didn't help all that much, but might come handy one time
+Mar 02 00:37:48 <gervase> Unless I am missing something, couldn't the new
statements be moved outside?
+Mar 02 00:38:23 <gervase> You can then pass the newly created object by
ptr.
+Mar 02 00:38:42 <gervase> You then put delete in the destructor.
+Mar 02 00:40:28 <grumbel> we need a smart_ptr wrapper class around the
music stuff
+Mar 02 00:40:32 <grumbel> sound stuff I mean
+Mar 02 00:40:51 <grumbel> music is ok as it is, since we only allocate
one music file at once and destroy it if another music gets started
+Mar 02 00:41:47 <grumbel> sound effects could simply be allocated once at
system startup
+Mar 02 00:42:10 <grumbel> since we only have a handfull of them, then
stuffed in a std::map<> and deleted at sound shutdown
+Mar 02 00:42:25 <grumbel> so we could reuse the sound effects at least
+Mar 02 01:05:13 <gervase> I assume that you would replace PingusSoundReal
with the std::map<>,
+Mar 02 01:05:27 <gervase> which PingusSound would search?
+Mar 02 01:05:51 <gervase> The std::map<> would be a member of PingusSound.
+Mar 02 01:08:06 <gervase> No need for smart_ptr then.
+Mar 02 01:10:16 <grumbel> problem is that this still doesn't solve the
problem with playing to many of the same sound at once
+Mar 02 01:10:36 <grumbel> so a seperate class is needed
+Mar 02 01:11:50 <grumbel> but std::map solution would be pretty simple to
implement and probally enough for the first release
+Mar 02 01:13:07 <gervase> Does the too many sounds problem only occur at
Armageddon time?
+Mar 02 01:17:41 <gervase> If only one sound is allowed to play at the
same time, I think Armageddon would sound silly.
+Mar 02 01:18:16 <gervase> I think you would only hear 2 "Oh-no"s, when in
fact 50 Pingus are about to die.
+Mar 02 01:20:48 <gervase> My ISP's auto disconnect will be kicking into
action in literally 1 a minute.
+Mar 02 01:21:47 <gervase> So, I'll bid you all farewell...
+Mar 02 01:22:54 <grumbel> it doesn't have to be 50 sounds
+Mar 02 01:22:59 <grumbel> but probally 5 or so
+Mar 02 01:23:16 <grumbel> playing the same sound over and over again,
results in some kind of 'echo'-like sound
+Mar 02 01:23:23 <grumbel> which sounds completly wrong and broken
+Mar 02 01:24:24 <grumbel> good night, going to sleep "Real Soon Now"[tm]
Added: htdocs/irc/2004-04-02.log
===================================================================
--- htdocs/irc/2004-04-02.log 2007-01-14 06:07:40 UTC (rev 2643)
+++ htdocs/irc/2004-04-02.log 2007-01-14 06:12:01 UTC (rev 2644)
@@ -0,0 +1,568 @@
+<wingman2> lets go
+--- grumbel has changed the topic to: Pingus - http://pingus.seul.org -
meeting now
+<perica_> I think grubel should give some introductory word...
+<grumbel> Welcome everybody...
+--> settra (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<Lemmus> Thanks.
+--> Torangan (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<grumbel> Torangan quited away a few minutes ago, hope he comes back, else it
could get a bit throublesome to talk about 0.6.1 stuff
+<grumbel> ok, there you are, good :)
+<Torangan> I just had some client problems. ;-)
+--> mat (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+--> tobgle (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+ tobgle Torangan
+<Torangan> Was there any talk already - didn't get a message for the last 45
minutes or so.
+<wingman2> no
+ tobgle Torangan
+<perica_> nothing that matters anyway
+<grumbel> Torangan: ok, what are the missing things for 0.6.1?
+<grumbel> ie. beside the font
+<wingman2> 2nd island
+<Torangan> Important is just the font anymore.
+<Lemmus> No 2nd island is for 0.7.0
+<wingman2> k
+* MatzeB is back (gone 01:03:28)
+<Torangan> As soon as we get it I'll see what translations can be completed
fast enough for 0.6.1 and which should wait for 0.7
+<perica_> what is the goal of 0.6.1 actually?
+<Torangan> bugfixing
+<Torangan> providing a testbed for 0.7 and the first official Win32 binary
ever ;-)
+<MatzeB> meeting already started?
+<perica_> That would be great, many of my friends wanted to play it, but
didn't want to install Linux just because of it
+<Torangan> 0.6.1 will contain mostly new translations as well as a few
bugfixes and a nice font for latin1 and latin2.
+<MatzeB> I could help with a windows version I think
+ tobgle Torangan
+<Lemmus> I also think that some cleanup in the level directory would be in
place for .6.1. I am running through the levels atm.
+--> che (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<grumbel> Torangan: there already was a win32 bin for 0.4 :)
+<che> hello.
+<Torangan> It's been possible to compile in Win32 all the time since 0.6 -
just neither grumbel nor I have the required tools and at the time of the
release there were problems getting a binary.
+ mat MatzeB
+<grumbel> MatzeB: Sphair (not yet here) will take care of win32 stuff
+<Torangan> Well, the first Win32 binary for a playable version?
+<MatzeB> ok
+ tobgle Torangan
+--> Harry (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<grumbel> has anybody tested the editor in 0.6-cvs?
+--> Ginge (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+* MatzeB tries compiling pingus cvs but failed
+<Torangan> running through the levels remind me that I should install the
level comment tool really soon now
+<grumbel> ie. the one in 0.6 freezed quite a few times, the in cvs should be
better but might still be 'freezy'
+<MatzeB> canvas.* and some other files seemed to be missing
+<Torangan> ClanLib 0.7 installed?
+<MatzeB> clanlib cvs
+ mat MatzeB
+<MatzeB> is this canvas a clanlib file?
+<MatzeB> seemed like a pingus file to me
+<grumbel> MatzeB: pingus 0.6 needs clanlib0.6, pingus-cvs needs clanlib0.7
+<Torangan> And pingus-cvs doesn't produce a working binary but that's about to
change hopefully.
+<MatzeB> repostitory at :pserver:address@hidden:/var/lib/cvs is the correct
one?
+<che> grumbel: just to drop that in... clanlib is such a monster.. id have
already packaged pingus if i had enough time to really look into clanlib ;)
+<MatzeB> pingus heavily depends on clanlib from what I've seen
+<Torangan> pingus.seul.org/developement/cvs.hml - I put the info how to get
the 0.6.1 sources there too
+<MatzeB> anyway to stay more on topic the TODO for this month is in the
happypenguin.org post?
+--> eats_only_heads (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<Lemmus> Do we have any guidelines for "proper" levels? I.e. is it ok to make
changes in what material is solid and what is background, etc... How to define
difficulties, etc, etc...
+<perica_> ClanLib :( I would suggest porting Pingus to SDL, but it looks
like a whole lot of work...
+ mat MatzeB
+ mat MatzeB
+<grumbel> MatzeB: the Todo isn't very detailed at the moment at
happypenguin.org I try to flesh it out and provide some external links later on
+<MatzeB> and like alot of unnecessary work to me
+<MatzeB> well I'd like to help in coding and maybe I can help in deployement a
bit (like loki installer or win32 version)
+<grumbel> perica_: its pointless, clanlib works, if it doesn't better fix
clanlib than try to reimplemting clanlib ontop of sdl (which clanlib0.7 is
anyway, at least in part)
+<Torangan> grumbel: do you want to acutualize the todo of pingus.seul.org too?
+<MatzeB> also if it is I needed I could design some levels...
+<Zombie> Tell me something
+<Zombie> What ever happened to the "Super Tux" Function in 0.5.3?
+<grumbel> Zombie: it was never good for anything, just some graphics from
xpenguins
+<perica_> grubel: You're right. Perhaps I can get into fixing clanlib when I
have some free time
+<jpetersen> pingus-cvs: basher.cxx:28:28: ../resources.hxx: No such file or
directory
+<Zombie> What was it supposed to be for?
+<MatzeB> yep
+<MatzeB> I have samer error as jpetersen
+<Torangan> MatzeB: new levels are always a good idea :-)
+<grumbel> Zombie: nothing, completly useless
+<jpetersen> MatzeB: ok
+--> kerrigan (address@hidden) has joined #Pingus
+<MatzeB> Torangan: it's just that I'm best at coding
+<kerrigan> am i to late?
+<grumbel> jpetersen: I commit missing files as we speak
+<Torangan> MatzeB: well, I'm good at coding and no good at design at all but
there's still a lot to code left. ;-)
+<Lemmus> 13 minutes late :-)
+--> Dree (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<grumbel> last state of 0.7 should be compilable, but not useable
+<kerrigan> oh crap
+<kerrigan> sorry guys
+<MatzeB> grumbel: doesn't compile here although I have pingus and clanlib cvs,
I can tell you details later
+<grumbel> might be that recent clanlibcvs broke a few things
+ tobgle Torangan
+<MatzeB> seems more like files missing in pingus cvs
+<grumbel> that too, commited some files already
+<MatzeB> ah, lemme try again
+ tobgle Torangan
+<grumbel> Torangan: speaking about pingus0.6.1, how about changing the file
extension to something like '.pingus'? would at least resolve the conflict with
0.6-.plf vs 0.4-.plf
+<Lemmus> Good idea.
+<-- Ginge has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.62dp [Mozilla rv:1.6/20040206]")
+<Torangan> No problem on my side, just a small script.
+<Lemmus> I also - to repeat myself - consider it a really good idea with some
guideines for designing levels.
+<grumbel> I am also thinking that it would be a good idea to provide a better
framework for user contributed levels, ie. good old contrib-section should be
back
+<Torangan> And of course some adaptions to the code. ;-)
+<-- mat (address@hidden) has left #pingus ("Illegal Instruction - leaving
channel.")
+<Harry> i guess i could do some graphics... any wishes? :)
+<kerrigan> i can be the tester
+<Torangan> grumbel: do you mean a way to select user contributed levels from
the game - yes that would be nice.
+<Lemmus> Harry: We need a lot of entrances :-)
+<grumbel> Harry: tune up all animation to be on par with lemmings ;)
+<grumbel> groundpieces stuff is probally best done by myself, after all its
the easy part and especially the fun one
+ tobgle Torangan
+<Harry> hmm... handing over the boring stuff, eh? :)
+<grumbel> Torangan: yep, exactly, a simple menu presenting a list of levels or
levelsets dumped to ./pingus/levels/ or so
+<Lemmus> Yep. Especially we need a "real" climber. The miner also needs more
"swing" on the hack. Atm it goes up and down at approx the same speed. Needs
more kinda slow up, and faaast down.
+<jpetersen> i could do some coding (if another developer is needed)
+<Torangan> Every kind of help is needed I'd say. :-)
+<grumbel> Harry: any good at animations?
+<Harry> never tried in 2d
+<Harry> but i guess i could give it a spinn
+<Lemmus> I have some ideas for additions and improvements in level setup, but
is now the right time to discuss this?
+<grumbel> Harry: as Lemmus said we need a new climber and a waiting animation
for the bridger
+<Harry> are the anims just drawn right now? no generation from 3d models or
some such
+<grumbel> pretty much all the other sprites could need work too, but climber
and waiter are most pressing issues
+<grumbel> Harry: all drawn in 2d
+<grumbel> my anim skills are something like:
http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/tmp/anim2.gif (anim.gif too)
+<Lemmus> We also need some work on the bridger. I am not sure whether this is
primarily animation or code that is needed.
+<grumbel> biggest problem that gimp is a pain for animations
+<grumbel> Lemmus: code mainly, the first steps of the bridger would need
special handling
+<Lemmus> Yep. And last step. Atm the bridger "lays" an invisible 16th block.
+<MatzeB> did you try filmgimp?
+<MatzeB> isn't that made for animations?
+<grumbel> more for editing movie frames
+<Lemmus> ("atm" being 0.6.0, sorry)
+<grumbel> havn't tried it however
+<Harry> any ideas how a good 2d animation tool would work?
+--> tuxipuxi (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<grumbel> Harry: like deluxpaint
+<Harry> could code one first if that'd make the job easier :)
+<grumbel> Harry: probally with additional stuff to overlay next/previous frame
transparently
+<MatzeB> Harry: in 1 month?
+<Harry> one evening :)
+<Torangan> Harry: go offline and show us your result later? ;-)
+<grumbel> Harry: I have some plans on how my drawing-app of choice would look
like, but it could take a bit longer to explain
+--> gervase (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<grumbel> jpetersen: if you would like to do some coding I could offer some
more or less boring things that need fixup inside clanlib
+<Harry> lets try the gimp first anyways :)
+<-- Dree has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+<MatzeB> grumbel: what's the state of the networking and splitscreen plans?
+<MatzeB> that sounds like a task for me :)
+<grumbel> MatzeB: for networking I don't have any plans at all at the moment,
might be good to have, but splitscreen has priority
+<Lemmus> grumbel: Splitscreen without networking needs support for two mice.
Do clanlib have this?
+<grumbel> Lemmus: yes, clanlib 0.7 has support for that
+* MatzeB also wonders how to do that. X only supports 1 mouse I think
+<grumbel> Lemmus: at least on linux, works by reading directly from
/dev/input/mouseX
+<Torangan> You don't need X to query a mouse.
+<MatzeB> ah nice
+<grumbel> can/should probally rewritten to support /dev/input/eventX too, not
sure which one causes less throuble and if linux2.6 breaks that
+<-- eats_only_heads has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.52B [Mozilla rv:1.6/20040113]")
+<Torangan> What modes should splitscreen have? Cooperative play, two players
race against each other on same level, ?
+ tobgle Torangan
+<grumbel> Torangan: coop and vs
+ tobgle Torangan
+<Lemmus> We need the same 2plr mode as in lemmings.
+<jpetersen> grumbel: ok
+<perica_> MatzeB: X supports multiple mice
+<grumbel> Torangan: in both one would just have normal game player, but each
player only controlling its own lemmings
+ tobgle Torangan
+<MatzeB> perica_: but not multiple pointers AFAIK
+<perica_> MatzeB: correct
+<Harry> grumbel: what version should i work with?
+<grumbel> Torangan: only the counting would be different really, ie. in coop
you need X pingus to make it to next level, in vs you need more pingus to win
+<MatzeB> a coop in which 1 people control 1 set of lemmings would also be
interesting...
+<Harry> anims still done the same in cvs and 0.6.0?
+<MatzeB> a coop in which 2 people control 1 set of lemmings would also be
interesting...
+<grumbel> I never found the 2player mode of lemmings much interesting, kind of
always ended up being rather random
+<Torangan> grumbel: yes, I see what you mean and it shouldn't be too hard to
implement
+ tobgle Torangan
+<Lemmus> Random???
+<MatzeB> Torangan: you wanna work on that too?
+<Torangan> cvs and 0.6.0 don't differ much, cvs is only partly ported to
ClanLib 0.7
+<Harry> ok
+<perica_> grumbel: 2 player mode was great, much more fun than single player,
because you can't use the Pause
+<Torangan> MatzeB: I'm usually working on quite everything I've got the skill
for. Over time that set seems to grow. ;-)
+<grumbel> Lemmus: since the actions are all 'passive' at the moment it just
ended up one player blowing the other away and such, the end result was more
random than determined by skill
+<Lemmus> 2 player was SOOO cool. But both playsers need to be rather skilled.
+<Lemmus> I don't agree.
+<MatzeB> Torangan: well 2 people working on the same area might not be easy
+<MatzeB> Torangan: maybe I should just do levels then...
+<MatzeB> or some other coding
+<grumbel> Harry: yep, anims are still the same
+<Torangan> MatzeB: if you want to do this, don't worry, I'll find other things
:-)
+<grumbel> Harry: use whatever you prefer, ie. multiple layers for anims or
multiple files or whatever
+<grumbel> Harry: some script-fu/python-fu should be able to convert it
+<grumbel> one of the first goals for 0.7 will be to finish the port to clanlib
0.7
+<MatzeB> data/images/fonts/pingus_small-2.png seems to be missing in cvs
+<Torangan> perica_: if you don't want to be tempted to use pause, just define
no key for it *g*
+<perica_> I do use it in single player, since the number of saved pingus counts
+<grumbel> could somebody give me an idea of what the fun part of lemmings 2
player mode is, ie. what stops it from ending up pretty boring (place a stoper,
player2 destroys the stopper, place another stopper, p2 destroys it again,
vice. verse, etc.)?
+<Torangan> grumbel: Well that would be 2 players in coop mode playing vs ;-)
+<MatzeB> maybe just the fact that you had a reason to meet your friend :)
+<Lemmus> grumbel: "destrying" the opponents stopper is not so easy - because
you can only give orders to your own pingus.
+<Lemmus> In order to get your own stoppers to stop the opponents pingus you
need to make him turn around and visit the opponents half of the screen.
+<grumbel> Lemmus: place a stopper beside the other players stopper, blow your
stopper away
+<Lemmus> Yes, ofcourse.
+<grumbel> it all sounds more than chaos than fun
+<perica_> grumbel: you have green and blue pingus, each belonging to one
player. You can only control yours.
+<Lemmus> But you don't have unlimited amount of stoppers.
+<perica_> It is a chaotic fun :)
+<Lemmus> Yep.
+<Torangan> grumbel: I guess we should implement it if some people have fun
playing that way. Must not be me or you. :-)
+<grumbel> perica_: yes, I know how it works, I just have a hard time imagine
it to be fun for more than a few minutes
+<Lemmus> Well. I have played it for hours and hours.
+<grumbel> I compared to worms there are just far less possiblites
+<perica_> well, you have _your_ exit and you have to move yours and opponents
pingus there, and he has to stop you and try the opposite at the same time
+<Lemmus> Worms is boring.
+<grumbel> with a lot of additional actions, especially designed for
multiplayer it might get interesting, but still due to the lack of direct
controlls it would feel a bit weird
+<Torangan> Well, nothing is going to stop us from adding worms like actions.
Why use a basher? Use your bazooka Pingu. ;-)
+<perica_> Worms is boring only because it's turn based... pingus is a action
game :)
+<grumbel> Lemmus: watching some pro-gamers doing some rope-action is already
interesting enough :)
+<tuxipuxi> worms is nice
+<perica_> we turn the rope off when playing, and turn time is set to 20sec
+<Torangan> On the other hand - do we want to see those cute little Pingus use
weapons?
+<tuxipuxi> no!
+ tobgle Torangan
+<perica_> otherwise you can die of boredom while you wait your turn
+<grumbel> Torangan: for multiplayer they kind of have to
+ tobgle Torangan
+<grumbel> Torangan: one could always do it 'paintball-style'
+<tuxipuxi> grumbel: good idea
+<Lemmus> grumbel: no.
+<grumbel> no need to spread blood across the screen
+<tuxipuxi> but i don't want to see dying tuxis :)
+<Lemmus> Killing your opponent is a bad idea. Stealing them is better.
+<Torangan> I'd say no blood for sure, won't fit the game IMHO.
+<tuxipuxi> i agree
+<Torangan> Weapons that change the color of your opponents Pingu and make them
yours? Yes, I like that idea more.
+<perica_> Lemmus: stealing is the best :)
+<grumbel> Lemmus: the problem is that stealing is boring, no sneaking etc.,
stealing them is rather obvious
+<Lemmus> Yep. This way they count "double".
+ tobgle Torangan
+<grumbel> Torangan: yep, something like that, the posibilty to place traps and
such would be nice too
+<grumbel> one would also need runners and/or teleporters to speed up gameplay
a bit
+<Lemmus> Obvious, but dangerous, because if you steal them then you have to
force them to go to your half of the screen - and hence give the other player
lots of possibilities of doing harm.
+<Torangan> No one said that stolen Pingu must be easy to save. ;-)
+<Lemmus> Exactly.
+<perica_> grumbel: have you ever played lemmings in two. Nothing needs to
speed it up, it goes too fast, since you have another *human* intervening
+<grumbel> perica_: yes, I have and it was never much fun
+<perica_> well, I guess different people have different tastes
+<MatzeB> well with such special multiplayer options it could be fun
+<MatzeB> also I think for some people a cooperative mode would be good...
+<Lemmus> Yep. And really, this discussion is rather silly. Because as soon as
we have support for two mice and two colours of pingus, then implementing all
sorts of multiplayer games will be really easy.
+<MatzeB> well this discussion has to happen sometime, but I agree not now :)
+<grumbel> Lemmus: implementing to colour pingus was already done in the past,
but got stripped out again due to it being rather useless
+<grumbel> cooperative-vs mode could be interesting, ie. player needing to help
each other, while still fighting for the most pingus in the goal
+<MatzeB> that sounds strange to me...
+<Torangan> depend on your enemy, yes that's an interesting challenge
+<Lemmus> grumbel: I am not sure that I understand. Isn't this the same as
"real" vs mode. Just with a different type of level?
+<MatzeB> we could have some kind of fog like in strategy games
+<grumbel> Lemmus: would also need special traps and such, else you could
always to stuff yourself
+<MatzeB> so that you can't see the turns of your opponents directly
+<MatzeB> in this case traps and all this stuff would make sense again
+<Lemmus> Matze: That I do not understand.
+<MatzeB> Lemmus: it's simple you only see what your pingus see
+<MatzeB> Lemmus: the rest is grayed out
+<grumbel> MatzeB: would be a bit weird in splitscreen, but for network it
would surly be a great thing
+<MatzeB> ie. you see the map but not the opponent...
+<MatzeB> yes on splitscreen it's not usefull
+<Lemmus> Oh. But if the opponent is working on your half of the screen then
you would see him nevertheless.
+<MatzeB> Lemmus: yep
+<MatzeB> Lemmus: but maybe then it's too late ;-)
+<perica_> One player could have only one type of actions, and other other
type, so they have to help each other
+<Lemmus> ???
+<Lemmus> What do you mean - I really don't understand.
+<Zombie> What is the parameter to specify the output of a tarball again?
+<grumbel> perica_: could get impossible to balance that way
+<Lemmus> As long as the opponent is on his own half then he cannot do anything
that is dangerous to you. As soon as he enters your half then you see him.
+<perica_> IMO, lemmus is right
+<MatzeB> well I assume these multiplayer options are not a goal for this month?
+<Zombie> And is it possible to have more than one species in Pingus?
+<MatzeB> I think we should first concentrate on cooperative and race mode,
shouldn't we?
+<grumbel> MatzeB: yep, since thats what we get pretty much for 'free'
+<Torangan> Zombie: what do you want to achieve?
+<MatzeB> well I have an exam on 6.th but after that I should have some time to
work on the splitscreen and then network mode
+<Zombie> I just want to recustively tar directory into directory.tar.gz
+<MatzeB> grumbel: so I'll come back to that later
+<grumbel> Zombie: tar czvf foo.tar.gz foo/
+<Zombie> okay I had it backwards
+<Harry> anybody tried gimp gap (GIMP Animation Package)? seems to be a new
thing in 2.0 (or >=1.3.5)
+<grumbel> Harry: its a huge ugly hack
+<grumbel> and slow too
+<Harry> heh, ok :)
+<Lemmus> Here comes an idea: How about adding an optional colour-field to each
worldobject.
+<Lemmus> Problem is that different worlds have different shade.
+--> JDaly (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<grumbel> Lemmus: worldobjs don't really need different colors for that
+<Lemmus> I.e. jungle have to be sort-of green, and hellmouth have to be sort
of brown.
+<grumbel> either they are specifcly designed for a world (which is the case
for entrances/exits) or they arn't
+<MatzeB> pingus cvs crashs in editor and in the worldmap there's no pingu
running around
+<grumbel> in the later case a different color wouldn't help
+<MatzeB> and I can't seem to start levels
+<Lemmus> This way you would be able to do much more recycling on world-object
than what you are today.
+<grumbel> MatzeB: thats expected, still a lot of stuff #ifdef'ed out to get it
through the compiler
+<MatzeB> ah ok
+<grumbel> Lemmus: drawing new worldobjects is relativly 'cheap', so no need
for recycling
+<Lemmus> I.e. take a look at the jungle level that I did submit a week ago.
The stone wall looks awfully gray.
+<jpetersen> grumbel: and there seems to be some problems with the sprite
definintions in data/data/*.xml
+<Lemmus> Yep. Drawing is cheap, but harddisk space is expensive.
+<grumbel> Lemmus: hard disk space is even more cheap
+<grumbel> close to be 'for free'
+<Lemmus> I don't agree.
+<perica_> download size is not cheap
+<MatzeB> adding complexity in code to save harddisk space really isn't worth
it IMO
+<grumbel> Lemmus: you get a gigabyte for something like 1EUR
+<Torangan> grumbel: be carefull, some people don't have access to resources
like hard disk space or download as we.
+<Lemmus> grumbel: Not in a laptop.
+<grumbel> Lemmus: make it 2EUR there
+<Torangan> We should remember that the groundpiece grafics are in KB area.
+<Lemmus> And downloading a gigabyte is - with my internet connection - 15
euros.
+<perica_> 1GB is still far from what Pingus will need
+<grumbel> 1gb is still 50 times larger than pingus is currently
+<Torangan> Avoiding unnecessary downloads is a good idea - for 0.6.1 the .ogg
music which is not used in tutorial world will be in an extra package intend
for level designers.
+<Torangan> Going into great pain to save it isn't worth the time though.
+<jpetersen> grumbel: what need to be fixed in libclan?
+<Lemmus> I cannot really see that it is "great pain". The possibility is
already there for backgrounds.
+<Lemmus> It would just be copying a bit of code.
+<grumbel> jpetersen: seemlessly switching from fullscree to windowed mode and
back
+<jpetersen> grumbel: ok, i'll look at it
+<grumbel> jpetersen: in general the whole fullscreen stuff looks a lot less
robust than sdl, so simply copy&pasting from sdl might already help
+<Harry> is that climber limited to 90deg. walls?
+<MatzeB> why not using SDL?
+<grumbel> Harry: pretty much at the moment
+<grumbel> MatzeB: clanlib0.7 uses sdl for software rendering
+<Lemmus> Harry: We need gfx for changes between walking and climing.
+<grumbel> for opengl however its plain glx at the moment
+<MatzeB> maybe you should change that then
+<MatzeB> as for windows you can't use glx too
+<grumbel> MatzeB: for windows it has its own wgl stuff
+<Lemmus> Harry: This way you would also be able to do some sensible climbs on
less than 90 degree walls.
+<Lemmus> Harry: Have you seen the orig. Lemmings gfx?
+<grumbel> Harry: climbing should be more traditional climbing, ie. not just
walking rotated 90 degree
+<Torangan> Lemmus: you'd also need some code to make a non 90 degree climb
possible.
+<Harry> i'm sure i have, but it's been a while :)
+<grumbel> climbing should be a bit tollerant, but it shouldn't allow non-90
degree climbs
+<Harry> if it was a real climbing like thing it could be rotated for some
angles
+<Torangan> I guess for climbing we could use something like a 90 degree turned
walker mode - where a walker would change to a faller, the climber changes to a
walker.
+<Harry> say 50, 60, 70, 80, 90
+<Harry> and those stored as sprites
+<Lemmus> Harry: Ok. In lemmings you only had 90 degree climbs. If slope was
greater than 90degrees then lemming would fall down. If it was smaller then
lemming would "pull itself up" on the single pixel, and then it would continue
to climb from there.
+--> wansti (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<grumbel> different topic, I plan to convert the pingus cvs repository to svn
in the very near future
+<grumbel> should make renames and such far easier than with cvs
+<Zombie> As in Svannah?
+<Lemmus> HArry: Problem in that would be the coding part. The background is
just stored as a pix-map, so making the code "see" the slope of a wall would
not be trivial.
+<Torangan> As in subversion
+<MatzeB> grumbel: will it be more stable now than what you had with windstille?
+<grumbel> Zombie: svn as in http://subversion.tigris.org/
+<MatzeB> grumbel: I remember the windstille repo was broken 2 times... in a
month
+<grumbel> MatzeB: will be 1.0 svn
+<MatzeB> if it stable then it'll be nice
+<Zombie> By the way.
+<Zombie> Can we please do soething about muzak in Wargus?
+<Torangan> lemmus: making a Pingu see the next few pixels isn't that
difficult. It's not as if you'd have to see a large way up front and the
climber won't even start if it can't finish.
+<Zombie> WRong query
+<Lemmus> Torangan: Well if you think that <90o climbs is worth it then ok. But
personally I think that the "lemmings solution" would be ok.
+--- #pingus :No such nick/channel
+<Torangan> I don't need other degrees than 90, it's more a question for level
designers. Is there substantial gain in such a feature?
+ tobgle Torangan
+ tobgle Torangan
+<grumbel> Torangan: a 'walking on the roof' like action could be usefull
+<grumbel> generic climbing however not so much
+<Lemmus> Well. Ofcourse a pingu should be able to "climb" any <90o surface. I
just think that the "lemmings way of doing it" looks good enough.
+--> zz|sergant (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<Torangan> grumbel: if you'd explain what you mean
+ tobgle Torangan
+<Lemmus> grumbel: Yeah, like the moon booter in lemmingsII the tribes.
+<grumbel> Torangan: inverse gravitiy and have the pingu walk on the other side
+<Torangan> grumbel: Ah yes, that's an ability with more potential.
+<Torangan> Allows for completely different tactics.
+<Torangan> grumbel: can you give an outline of what's to do to get cvs version
to produce a working binary?
+ tobgle Torangan
+ tobgle Torangan
+<Torangan> I guess that's the first step before we should implement new
features. :-)
+<MatzeB> the cvs version doesn't work currently
+<zz|sergant> Can't find a win32 version of pingus. Is there any working win32
version ? :)
+<grumbel> Torangan: checkout Libs/ClanLib-0.7, checkout Games/Pingus/,
configure && make
+<grumbel> zz|sergant: no, but you can compile one yourself
+<Torangan> grumbel: sure, I have all that on disk
+<grumbel> on the code side one needs to fill out all the #ifdef CLANLIB_0_6
stuff and convert it to clanlib0.7
+<zz|sergant> grumbel: ok
+<Torangan> grumbel: with working binary, I meant a playable without those
#ifdef
+<grumbel> basically replacing a few names here and there and moving some of
the hardcoded Sprite-classes stuff into CL_Sprites and resource files
+ tobgle Torangan
+<MatzeB> well I can't work on pingus until 7. or 8. Apr anyway, hope that'll
be fixed until then :)
+<grumbel> speaking about single player, what do people expect?
+<grumbel> I thought about having two new island, each ~20 levels
+<MatzeB> yep 2-4 new islands :)
+<MatzeB> depending on how much we get done
+<grumbel> both stone and hellmouth/volcano could/should be used
+<Torangan> first levels of 2 world with some ice, later on mostly stone?
+<MatzeB> I can't see volcano on the worlds page
+ tobgle Torangan
+<grumbel> Torangan: first world should be a mix of stones and ice/snow
+<Lemmus> That's the same as hellmouth
+ tobgle Torangan
+ tobgle Torangan
+<MatzeB> ah
+<MatzeB> volcano and stone look very much similar
+<MatzeB> on the other side that's probably less work for artists
+<Torangan> I guess the third world (counting tutorial as first) should then be
the volcano - gradually getting hotter.
+<perica_> lava is hot under north pole too
+<MatzeB> I like the Sortie and Desert themes most from a first look...
+<Torangan> The surrounding area of lava isn't exactly frozen most of the time.
+<MatzeB> some diversity in theme would make things more interesting IMO
+<grumbel> MatzeB: sortie currently sucks from a level designers point of view
+<-- wansti has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+<perica_> there are many playable levels, why not just use them? When 1.0 is
out, then all worlds will have to be sorted in logical order, IMHO
+<Torangan> and desert would be a hard jump from the ice of tutorial.
+<grumbel> ie. its almost impossible to build levels with sortie at the moment
due to the lack of gfx
+<MatzeB> Torangan: that's why I like it :)
+<grumbel> desert however is good and already has a handfull of nice levels
+<MatzeB> Torangan: after playing 20 ice levels I wanna see new stuff
+<MatzeB> kind of rewarding when you mastered a world, then you see new nice
graphics
+<Torangan> MatzeB: don't forget that we've got a story line and mastering
tutorial island isn't exactly difficult.
+<grumbel> perica_: a lot of those levels have quite variing quality
+<grumbel> perica_: beside that they don't fit the theme, etc.
+<Torangan> If we find levels in playable that can be used for a world, nothing
prevents us from doing so.
+<perica_> well, then add a level-browser so anyone can pick a random level
from directory... and have a mark (whether the player made it or not)
+<Lemmus> grumbel: Desert imho have 5 nice levels. desert2.plf
desert3-tflavel.plf desert5-tflavel.plf desert7-grumbel.plf
desert-crawl-timpany.plf - some of them needs a bit of work, but not much.
+<MatzeB> a automatically generated worldmap for the contrib levels would be a
cool idea
+<perica_> after few days I forgot which levels I tried...
+<Torangan> Generating a worldmap for the contrib levels would require for all
of them to be rated with regards to diffculty I'd say.
+<grumbel> Lemmus: there is also the indiana-yingwan.plf and probally a few
more other from yingwan, I think desert1-5.plf are good too
+<MatzeB> Torangan: just a plain field or so
+ tobgle Torangan
+<MatzeB> Torangan: so that you can play them all, it just would match the
style nicely IMO
+<grumbel> Torangan: just a list for random contrib-levels will do
+<Lemmus> Grunbel. Hmm. They need some work.
+<MatzeB> well I gotta go
+<MatzeB> bye
+<Torangan> grumbel: do you intend such a list for 0.6.1?
+ tobgle Torangan
+<MatzeB> will someone post a log somewhere later?
+<grumbel> Torangan: yep
+<Torangan> grumbel: I think that's a good idea. Perhaps we can get back to the
idea of using a worlds like mode for 0.7.
+<Torangan> Having a way to select them from the game is an improvement in any
case.
+<-- MatzeB has quit ()
+<-- jpetersen has quit ("Client exiting")
+<-- perica_ has quit ()
+<Torangan> grumbel: Do you have a date in mind to get 0.6.1 out?
+<grumbel> should be doable to get it out in one or two weeks
+<Torangan> Yes, I considered mid april to be a good date - enough time for the
translators still working to finish their work.
+<grumbel> Lemmus: don't see much wrong with desert1-7-{grumbel}.plf actually
+<Torangan> Anything not finished by then won't have to wait long before 0.7
get's out hopefully.
+<grumbel> Lemmus: they would of course need some resorting due to difficulty,
but thats it
+<Lemmus> grumbel: Let's take the discussion on the maling list.
+<Torangan> And let's decide wheter we want desert to be one of the first
worlds - would need an interesting continue for the story line IMHO.
+--> jpetersen (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<Lemmus> I also think that desert should wait. Primarily because the
backgrounds are soo cool that it should be quite easy to make some interresting
difficult levels. A shame to use it for an early world.
+<grumbel> even so I really like desert, from a story point of view I would
prefer to have it later on
+<Torangan> Glad that we agree to have desert later on in the story line.
+<grumbel> ie. ice->stone->hellmouth->industrial->foliage/jungle->desert->space
+<grumbel> with candy and crystal mixed into that somewhere
+<Torangan> perhaps hellmouth->crystal->industrial and space->candy
+<Lemmus> Another kick-in in the debate: It would be cool to formalize the
testing of levels, and what a "level needs" to be marked as playable. How is
testing done between versions to secure that old levels keep their difficulty.
+<Torangan> I guess if you want to formally mark that a level is playable,
attach a demo in which it gets solved.
+<grumbel> Lemmus: by playing them through
+<grumbel> Lemmus: since we have demo-recording having the levels be played
back automatically however is relativly easy
+<Lemmus> Yeah, ok. But who should do that? Who decides the difficulty?
+--> Zino (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<grumbel> Lemmus: the one that creates the world, which would most likly be me
+<Lemmus> Yeah. The demorecorder is cool. But do we have an "official" place to
store the "official" solutions for levels? What if sby. comes up with a
solution that is easier than the "official"?
+<grumbel> comments are of course welcome and reordering the levels is quite
painless
+<Lemmus> Ok.
+<grumbel> Lemmus: then the level is a) broken or b) cool, since it allows
multiple solutions
+<Torangan> I'm going to install an official place for level comments.
+<Lemmus> Torangan: Ok. Will that include space for demo-records?
+<Torangan> Official solutions should probably be placed only in CVS, why hold
them in front of players.
+--- Zino is now known as PBortas
+<Lemmus> Torangan: I agree.
+--- PBortas is now known as Zino
+<zz|sergant> is pingus allready use cl 0.7.x or it still use cl 0.6.x ?
+<grumbel> Lemmus: data/demos/*.xml already has a few recordings
+<grumbel> zz|sergant: both, depends on which pingus version
+<Lemmus> Ah. Sorry.
+<grumbel> file extension should change however
+<zz|sergant> grumbel: I chechout cvs right now
+<Torangan> I'll do that monday or tuesday.
+ Zino Zombie zz|sergant
+<grumbel> zz|sergant: clanlib0.7 then
+<Torangan> (I'll be away over the weekend.)
+<zz|sergant> grumbel: ok, thx
+<grumbel> just for the record, I'll will be busy the next days with supertux,
so not much progress from me either
+<grumbel> anybody around who would like to cleanup/write a level building
tutorial?
+<Torangan> grumbel: could you add the new version of the font? This would help
somewhat.
+<grumbel> pingus0.6.1 should kind of end up as a level-building-edition
+ tobgle Torangan
+<grumbel> Torangan: I can try...
+<Lemmus> I only see two demos in the demos-dir. One of which is not xml.
+<Torangan> Is anyone planning on getting the #ifdef out of the cvs version?
+ tobgle Torangan
+<grumbel> Torangan: unless somebody volunteers that would be me
+<grumbel> but that might take a few days
+<Torangan> grumbel: I hope to get someone to voluteer, I've got some things to
do for 0.6.1 first and you're occupied with SuperTux still.
+<Torangan> It's probably even a good task to get familar with the structure of
the source.
+<grumbel> since 0.6.1 is basically working and should be enough for content
creation 0.7 doesn't even need to be done 'real soon now'
+<Lemmus> ... And the other demo-file is for an inplayable level (with no gfx)
+<Torangan> I imagine 0.7 somewhere in may.
+ tobgle Torangan
+<grumbel> Torangan: 0.7 -> 1. May
+<grumbel> thats the target, if we can hold it is another story
+<Torangan> I'd even see it a little bit later, maybe 15. May but we should
strive for 1. May surely.
+<Harry> http://www.ratol.fi/~hstorbac/tmp/climber.png
+<Harry> hows that?
+ tobgle Torangan
+<Torangan> With a little luck it should be possible to get 0.6.1 out at ~10.
April.
+<Lemmus> That is cute. I like the helmet :-)
+<grumbel> Torangan: the new island itself should be no problem till 1.may,
multiplayer and a new level editor is of course a different story
+<grumbel> Harry: great :)
+<grumbel> especially the helmet is good, since it adds as a marker for pingus
that have the climbing ability but are still in a walk
+<Torangan> A lot better then the current one. ;-)
+<Lemmus> grumbel: Yeah, I din't think about that. Though, then we need all
pingus in 4 versions. With and without propeller, and with and without helmet.
+<Torangan> grumbel: if need be we can put the new levels even into a 0.6.2 at
1. May to show the progress of GoTM while getting the other stuff finished.
+--> Chilling_Silence (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<Harry> shouldn't be too hard to animate either, just make the arms (wings or
whatever) and feet move a bit
+<Torangan> You mean with nothing, helmet, propeller or helmet+propeller?
+<grumbel> Lemmus: the propeller is just a overlay over the sprite, no need
for a new sprite
+<Harry> maybe a little swing on the head
+* Chilling_Silence greets #pingus
+<Lemmus> Torangan: yes.
+<Lemmus> grumbel: ok.
+<Torangan> Using another overlay shouldn't complicate matters much, maybe we
need another propellor for the climber + floater case.
+<Torangan> Harry: maybe make the white area of the Climber a little bit
larger?
+<Torangan> Harry: it looks a little bit too heavy for climbing :-)
+<grumbel> something different, who is interested in building levels?
+<Lemmus> Me :-)
+<Lemmus> I am just out of ideas, but hopefully will come up with some more
levels soon.
+<Torangan> That reminds me, I haven't mentioned my favorite pet: anyone here
who'd like to do another translation? :-)
+<Lemmus> Ofcourse, if 0.7.0 is meant to include new faller code, and new
climber code, then all previous levels would need revisions.
+<grumbel> Lemmus: the code will stay pretty much the same
+<Harry> Torangan: the size of the white area should prolly change depending on
which hand is up
+<grumbel> at most it will get a little bit more tolerant about one-pixel things
+<Lemmus> Yep, but perhaps the timing will change a bit.
+<Harry> like in normal walk cycle
+<Torangan> Harry: maybe it would be even better to simply reduce the amount of
black and thus have the white a little further from the ground/wall
+<grumbel> Lemmus: maybe, but nothing that can't be fixed in a few seconds per
level
+<Lemmus> Discussion is dying. Is this the end, for now?
+<grumbel> anyway, stone and hellmouth graphics are currently allowed for
levels, everything else could need a bit more discussion first
+<Torangan> Harry: this would also leave more room for the animated part but
I'm far from beeing a designer myself. ;-)
+<grumbel> Lemmus: kind of, next meeting will be Saturday April 10th I guess
+<Lemmus> Ok.
+<grumbel> goal till then would be a useable 0.7 and probally a contrib screen
for 0.6
+<Lemmus> I will look at some stone-levels 'till then.
+<Torangan> If we get the contrib screen and the font done fast enough, it
could even be the date for a 0.6.1 release. That would surely draw more people
to the IRC meeting. ;-)
+<Lemmus> See you!
+<-- Lemmus (address@hidden) has left #pingus
+<-- JDaly has quit ("Verlassend")
+<Harry> http://www.ratol.fi/~hstorbac/tmp/climber2.png
+<Harry> i like the fatter one more myself
+<grumbel> Harry: me too, fat is good, looks more like the penguins linux
people are used to
+--> blacksheep (address@hidden) has joined #pingus
+<Torangan> Well, it seems like Tux must always stay fat. So be it. :-)
+<blacksheep> hey!
+<blacksheep> damn, missed the meeting :((
Added: htdocs/src/Makefile
===================================================================
--- htdocs/src/Makefile 2007-01-14 06:07:40 UTC (rev 2643)
+++ htdocs/src/Makefile 2007-01-14 06:12:01 UTC (rev 2644)
@@ -0,0 +1,52 @@
+OUTPUTFILES = \
+ ../default.css \
+ ../index.html \
+ ../welcome.html \
+ ../news.html \
+ ../news_old.html \
+ ../faq.html \
+ ../contact.html \
+ ../download.html \
+ ../screenshots.html \
+ ../screenshots-0.0.html \
+ ../screenshots-0.1.html \
+ ../screenshots-0.2.html \
+ ../screenshots-0.3.html \
+ ../screenshots-0.4.html \
+ ../screenshots-0.5.html \
+ ../levelbuilding-tutorial.html \
+ ../development.html \
+ ../manual.html \
+ ../press.html
+
+all : $(OUTPUTFILES)
+
+clean :
+ rm -vf $(OUTPUTFILES)
+
+../default.css : default.css
+ cp -v $< $@
+
+../index.html : index.html
+ cp -v $< $@
+
+../%.html :: %.xml default.xsl Makefile
+ FILENAME=$<; \
+ echo $${FILENAME%%.xml}; \
+ xalan -param filename "'$${FILENAME%%.xml}'" -in $< -out $@ -xsl
default.xsl
+
+upload: all
+ (cd ..; \
+ rsync --checksum --exclude "old/" --cvs-exclude -rv . \
+ address@hidden:/home/pingus/public_html/ \
+ )
+
+commit: all
+ (cd ..; \
+ cvs commit -m "automatic commit" )
+
+#tidy -asxml -indent -quiet -modify $@
+
+.PHONY: all clean upload
+
+# EOF #
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