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Re: Packaging problems


From: Christian Grothoff
Subject: Re: Packaging problems
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 21:44:14 +0200
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.9.0

Having many packages doesn't usually make it easier for packagers, it just means that now they have to deal with even more sources, and create more package specifications. Moreover, build times go up, as you now need to run configure many times. Worse, you then need to find out in which order to build things, and what are dependencies. It basically makes it worse in all aspects.
Another big issue is that right now, I at least notice if I break the 
build of an application and can fix it. Same if I run analysis tools: 
they at least get to see the entire codebase, and can warn us if 
something breaks. If we move those out-of-tree, they'll be even more 
neglected. What we can (and do do) is mark really badly broken 
applications as 'experimental' and require --with-experimental to build 
those. That's IMO better than moving stuff out of tree.
Also, you probably don't want to split things as you proposed: GNS 
depends on VPN and SETU! SET is supposed to become obsolete, but 
consensus still needs it until SETU is extended to match the SET 
capabilities.
Finally, as for build times, have you even tried 'make -j 16' or 
something like that? Multicore rules ;-).
Happy hacking!

Christian


On 6/2/22 17:29, Willow Liquorice wrote:
Right. Perhaps the onus is on the developers (i.e. us) to make things a bit easier, then?
To be honest, I barely understand how the GNUnet project is put together 
on a source code level, let alone how packaging is done. One of the 
things I'm going to do with the Sphinx docs is provide a high-level 
overview of how the main repo is structured.
On the subject of complexity, I attempted to disentangle that awful 
internal dependency graph a while ago, to get a better idea of how 
GNUnet works. I noticed that it's possible to divide the subsystems up 
into closely-related groups:
     * a "backbone" (CADET, DHT, CORE, and friends),
     * a VPN suite,
     * a GNS suite,
     * and a set operations suite (SET, SETI, SETU).

A bunch of smaller "application layer" things (psyc+social+secushare, conversation, fs, secretsharing+consensus+voting) then rest on top of one or more of those suites.
I seem to recall that breaking up the main repo has been discussed 
before, and I think it got nowhere because no agreement was reached on 
where the breaks should be made. My position is that those 
"applications" (which, IIRC, are in various states of "barely 
maintained") should be moved to their own repos, and the main repo be 
broken up into those four software suites.
As Maxime says, GNUnet takes a long time to compile (when it actually 
does - I'm having problems with that right now), and presumably quite a 
while to test too. The obvious way to reduce those times is to simply 
*reduce the amount of code being compiled and tested*. Breaking up the 
big repo would achieve that quite nicely.
More specifically related to packaging, would it be a good idea to look 
into CD (Continuous Delivery) to complement our current CI setup? It 
could make things easier on package maintainers. Looks like Debian has a 
CI system we might be able to make use of, and all we'd need to do is 
point out the test suite in the package that goes to the Debian archive.



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