Re: [fluid-dev] Re : Re: About sustain and sostenuto pedal

[jean-jacques.ceresa]

> Probably best to ignore redundant noteOns where no pedals are involved.

Yes and actualy in FluidSynth (i.e FS), redundant stacked noteOn on same 
chan and key (i.e  noteOn1,noteOn2,... ) is handled by 
fluid_synth_release_voice_on_same_note_LOCAL().
Actual behavior of this function is pretty straightforward as on noteOn 
it forces a noteOff on previous noteOn:
So when receiving "noteOn1,noteOn2,..."   FS play 
"noteOn1,noteOff1,noteOn2,...". Note that FS insert "noteOff1" 
immediatly before playing "noteOn2", to force
actual sounding note1 into release phase .
This behavior is rather natural regarding accoustic instruments and the 
way they can be played.

Last evening, i have just tried FS on this intended behavior and  FS 
scceeds as on noteOn2 we can heard  note1  forced into release.
But FS doesn't succeed when noteOn1 is already Sustained by pedal. In 
this case previous notes are never forced into release and the
sound goes louder or strange as stack of unisson note is growin.
This is a bug I have fixed but not yet submitted to FS developer.
By the way, now  I am confident to continue adding sostenuto code.

>I still don't think simply forcing a noteOff, even a low-velocity 
noteOff, is a good idea ..........
Well, if i remember, velocity noteOff is not handled by Sf2 synthesizer 
model. So velocity on noteOff is ignored by FS that stay hightly SF2 
compliant !.

> ....since there could be something undesirable in the release.
Yes, It is possible for somes synthetic curious instruments that contain 
something special in the release phase.
But again for accoustic instrument the sound during release is normally 
quite 'natural'.
In all case mastering sound during release is only a mater of soundfont 
instrument design.

>It looks like you have a situation where something along the lines of 
a very fast concurrent fade (so as to avoid a pop) has to happen when, 
and only when, the Ped. and S.P. are up and >a sustained note is struck.
Sorry,  I am confused ? . Normally, when any pedal is going up, 
sustained note are forced into release, so leaving sustained phase. 
Please what do you mean ?

Regards.
jjc

Le 06/02/2015 07:36, R.L. Horn a écrit :
> On Thu, 5 Feb 2015, CERESA Jean-Jacques ENAC/ENAC wrote:
>
> > I agree with yours pertinent remarks.
>
> That's kind of you but, upon reflection, I realized that much of what 
> I had to say was actually pretty stupid.
>
> All you get with noteOn is channel and note, so stacked noteOns 
> probably result in undefined behavior anyway...unless you're ignoring 
> noteOffs, of course.  Probably best to ignore redundant noteOns where 
> no pedals are involved.
>
> I still don't think simply forcing a noteOff, even a low-velocity 
> noteOff, is a good idea since there could be something undesirable in 
> the release.
>
> It looks like you have a situation where something along the lines of 
> a very fast concurrent fade (so as to avoid a pop) has to happen when, 
> and only when, the Ped. and S.P. are up and a sustained note is struck.
>
> Tricky.
>
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