Re: LYNX-DEV -dev != -programming

[Drazen Kacar]

Philip Webb wrote:
 
> second, i'm amused at the references in two responses to  browser.org :
> yes, i HAVE contributed something to lynx-dev in the two months
> i have been looking in: it was little me who pointed out the url was free
> & suggested someone grab & use it for lynx.  thanx therefore to Rob & others
> for following up my idea very promptly for the benefit of everyone.

And I thank you very much for that. Somebody put him in the CHANGES file. He
deserved it.

> development is a lot more than programming.  there is clearly a number
> of very good programmers contributing to lynx code, out of enthusiasm,
> in their spare time.  but lynx-dev isn't about swapping patches
> for more & more esoteric add-ons.

I'm afraid that things will become more and more esotheric. The amount of
documents one has to read and process is frightening right now. It will be
worse in the future.

> it's about developing a product
> & making it available to a very large potential crowd of consumers.

Get Bill Gates on the list! He knows what to do. <g>

> but am still getting up the nerve to actually install it: i'm sure i can do
> it, but not at all sure it will be easy & straightforward.

Yes, you can.

> the system i use is UNIX in the form of IRIX on an SGI machine.  recently
> there was an appeal for help from someone who was trying to compile 2-6
> in the same environment (i've kept the thread for reference): Hiram Lester
> gave a very good & appropriate explanation at just the right level.
> the problem? -- you've got to  make clean .  the point? -- it's NOT COVERED
> in the installation guide.
> 
> but surely EVERYBODY knows THAT! -- no: the vast majority of people
> who may try to install 2-6 out there DON'T know that kind of thing
> (i didn't, but do now), or at least can't be ASSUMED to know it.
> that's just one of the still growing list of problems people are having
> installing the latest official version of lynx.

Now I need a clarification. Lynx runs on Unix and VMS. Both systems are
supposed to have administrators. When I use the word 'installed' that means
I made Lynx available to 8000 users. I'd use 'compiled' if it was on my
private Linux (or whatever). Are you sure there is a large base of people
who are not admins and who are trying to compile Lynx? Note that people
who don't have problems don't post to lynx-dev just to let us know they
made it.

> so, the first recommendation:  browser.org  should have a page which collects
> all the problems people have encountered installing the latest lynx
> on various machines/systems, & the page should be carefully organised
> so that it's easy to find what applies to you.  this is AS IMPORTANT
> to development of lynx as writing the code.

It is, and can be done by non-programmer. Probably better then by a programmer.
Do I see a volunteer? :)

> and a corollary: there should also be a page explaining background & jargon
> -- as Mr Sittler did for me -- : no, most people DON'T know those things,
> and they have no readier way of finding them out than to ask here.

There should not be a reason for people to know except if they wish to.
But in the real world... Oh, well... I can excuse myself from that since
English is not my native language. You would want explanations in English,
I suppose? :)

> second, isn't too much collective effort being put into patches?
> there has been more than one comment that lynx is getting too big:
> there's a very strong case for PC versions which would have to be smaller.
> some of the recent patches seem to be rather esoteric: it may be clever
> to allow multiple bookmark files, but is there more than one user anywhere
> who wants them?

Yes, there is. How big is your bookmark? More then 200 entries?
Lynx could be made smaller. And much faster. Blame the WWW Library. That's
the root of all evil. There are no tables because the Library functions
were made in a way that prevents this. Rewriting would need human resources we
currently don't have.
> 
> it goes back to point one: DEVELOPMENT should include a lot MORE of making
> lynx more widely & more easily available & LESS of adding bells, whistles
> & programming glitz to what already works so well.

There's a bit of a problem here. Some of the things that work well are
unimplemented or (horror of horrors) implemented the wrong way in "big"
browsers. And HTML authors and server admins are left with either-or decision.
Support either Lynx or Netscape. Lynx can't beat Netscape. Yet! If Xemacs
can work in text and graphics modes, so can Lynx 4.0!

-- 
Netscape is a sexually transmitted disease.

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