Re: minimal examples

[Graham Percival]

Hans Aberg wrote:
> On 7 Dec 2007, at 14:23, Mats Bengtsson wrote:
>
> > That's what Graham is trying to do. He voluntarily does a huge job on 
> > both this task
> > and the document revisions, all on his spare time.
>
> He said that he did not know much about the internals. So the suggestion 
> is to have somebody with that hekping out, which he already noticed.

There is nobody who knows more about the internals than me who has the 
time to help out.  And I only spend about two hours a week on the bugs. 
 There is a *critical* shortage of volunteers -- be they developers, 
documenters, website maintainers, whatever -- in lilypond.

> > Please don't feel insulted by his
> > comments on non-minimal examples. The next time you submit a bug 
> > report, I'm
> > sure you will spend a few more minutes yourself first.
>
> Don't you think folks might find it insulting, as you essentially do, 
> saying they should spend more time doing something they can't do simply 
> because they do not have the information?

The "bugs" website is intended to do that.  I apologize again for not 
sending you that link.

If you have any suggestions for improving those suggestions, please tell 
me.  You already suggested removing the \paper{ ragged-right=##t} line; 
as Mats replied, this line is easy to copy&paste, and if somebody 
forgets it I add it myself anyway.

As for the real hints, I honestly think that "remove anything 
unnecessary" is the best I can do.  I could easily write a 1000-word 
essay about how to remove unnecessary items in bug reports... but nobody 
would read it.  I estimate that by now I've spent three hours working on 
that measly webpage, trying to find the perfect balance between brevity 
and wit... err, I mean "compactness and explanations".  Still, it's 
possible that adding one more bullet point might clarify something; I'm 
not perfect.

Once somebody fails to produce a minimal example for the second time, I 
will general create one myself, precisely as I did in this case.  But I 
definitely want people to read the webpage and attempt to make a minimal 
example on their own first.

> It was great when Graham said 
> that "this or that might not be needed, please try reduce it a bit 
> further". If you work on a bit more interaction, then you should be able 
> to get people to help out more.

... and I go back to spending 20 hours a week on lilypond, instead of 
_trying_ to spend only 10 hours on lilypond.

For reference, my paid Teaching Assistant work -- which my academic 
advisor keeps on complaining about, since it means that I'm not working 
on my Masters thesis -- is 12 hours a week.  And I actually get money 
from that non-academic-career-furthering work.  Do you have any idea how 
many conference paper I could publish if I spent 20 hours a week working 
on them?  I might even be able to get some grants or scholarships!


Again, I apologize for not sending you the link.  But I will not spend 
any more time and energy on lilypond than I am already.  If that means 
that the bugs suffer, so be it.  I'm doing more than enough already.

- Graham