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Re: [Debian-sf-devel] Re: submission of free projects to

From: Christian BAYLE
Subject: Re: [Debian-sf-devel] Re: submission of free projects tool devel -
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:17:15 +0100
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; fr-FR; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021226 Debian/1.2.1-9

I think all kind of cutomization are possible with savannah/debian-sf/gforge code
But it should really be some work to make this easier

I always think that sourceforge-derivated code could have some core common infrastructure
and that it would be better to work together on big part of the code

There is i18n in debian-sf and gforge and probably big pieces of translation are reusable for savannah

The problem is how to merge effort?

I made some work to reuse savannah theme in debian-sf and there are also available in gforge
This was not a big problem showing me that the 2 codes are not so far.

The more we wait the most difficult it will be nevertheless.

I think savannah is missing a good installer like we made for debian-sf and now gforge

My idea is the following:
-I (We?) try to port debian-sf installer to savannah, this will help to have a better idea on database differences -For code that are different we use the work Roland made for plugin to enable to choose one solution or the other
   (I think here especially to the tracker)
-We should be able to have common plugin between savannah and gforge as a first step
   -We should be able to have a common class for themes too.

Enabling or disabling a sourceforge feature is not a big deal today, this should be nevertheless an install param, and in the future
a matter of installing or not a plugin.
We should probably also have a reflexion on how this could be integrated with phpgroupware/horde/... module systems


Mathieu Roy a écrit:

Vicente Ruiz <address@hidden> said:

On Mon, 2003-02-17 at 17:40, Mathieu Roy wrote:

Naturally, because Savannah have something to do with computing and
because of the origin of Savannah, the software seems mainly to be
usefull for software projects.

But we have nothing against an evolution in a more general
way. Savannah could be used for different kind of projects and we
would be glad of it.

So if you can work on improving Savannah in this way, we would have
nothing against.

Yes, is logic, but let me explain a little bit what happens with

Why we use debian-sf? Few months ago, I started to install savannah
in site. But when I read in the INSTALL file of savannah:

"We get a lot of requests from people who want to use the Savannah code
but we will not have time to spend in helping developing it. For those
users we  recommend Debian-SF because Savannah has not been packaged in
a way that users can install, configure and start using it easily."

and I read the opinion of people about debian-sf and Savannah I decided
to install and adapt debian-sf. But I use as a very
good reference of a mature and working tool.

I was thinking all the day about how Savannah or debian-sf can be
modified to manage "free projects" (not only software) [1], and it's not
easy. I'll try to show you:

Now the modifications that I made in debian-sf are not very important:

- Languages modifications to talk about Free Projects and not Software,
collaborators and not software developers, and things like that.
- Code modifications with the same goal.
- Not to use CVS by default, and things like that.
- New categories of projects, languages, licenses, etc.
- New themes.

All these changes make the tool a little bit more usable and oriented to
manage Free Projects by any kind of people, but it's necessary more

These changes are easy to integrate with Savannah or debian-sf, more or
less. But the first problem that I see is that I don't know if the rest
of the developers are interested in use the modifications and if they
want that Savannah or debian-sf software begins to be "Free Projects
Management Tool" instead of "Software Management Tool".

I think that gettext support, so i18n, would permit to do this in a
even more easier way.
Once you have po files, you can translate from english to french
etc... but you can also translate from computing-specific to

But this is a minor problem, there is a biggest problem.

Why I began with I was searching the possibility to use
a platform to develop "Free Projects" with any kind of people, not
necessary software developers, people with other skills (architects,
doctors, ecologists, teachers, sociologist, etcetera), and create
together free projects about architecture, ecology, economy, pedagogy,
..., and to share these "Free Knowledge". All with the philosophy of
Free Software but in other situations.

I tried to find a site with these philosophy but I didn't find it. Then
I decide to work to install a platform to permit this.

But the big problem is that normal people, don't know very well what is
Free Software, GNU/Linux, and the philosophy of GNU, and you have to
explain very good these concepts to permit to them to understand how the
Free Software Community works and to understand that they can do the
same and create "Free Projects" using their skills and working together
with other people with the same problems/interests.

In our Manifesto: we try that any
kind of people understand us, but it's difficult already.

When somebody understand the philosophy and want to use our tool in (a modification of debian-sf) it's very difficult for
them to understand how the tool works, to create projects, mailing
lists, forums, etcetera.

For this reason, we need a tool very, very usable for any kind o people,
and maybe the modifications to make Savannah or debian-sf more usable
have not any interest for the rest of software developers, maybe.

I would like to work with other developers in Savannah or debian-sf but
I don't know if they have or they can have the same goals.

I believe that your goals are compatible with Savannah goal (for
debian-sf, I do not know).
But note that it's completely
up-to-you. I'm not trying to force you to help us because of my
position. I just wanted to tell you that I think it may be a good option if you
work with us (and i18n becomes more and more and issue - and you re
dealing with issue that are in fact related to translations) but if
you do not think so, you're free to resubmit your project and we will
accept it (as soon as you add the license/copyright notes).


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