Re: [Fsfe-uk] OFT visit

[Ramanan Selvaratnam]

Hi,

I must admit first that the schools related threads are a bit beyond me.
But I want to introduce someone invovled with education plus comment on 
few issues we might be missing.

ian wrote:

> On Fri, 2003-06-06 at 01:01, MJ Ray wrote:
>  
>
> > Andrew Atkinson <address@hidden> wrote:
> >    
> >
> > > [...] All the result can be is that M$ removes
> > > the school agreement making schools pay the corporate rate.
> > >      
> > No, the right result could be that the licence fees are calculated
> > based on machines using the licensed code, rather than just on number
> > of machines.  
This is the situation schoolchildren will face when they grow up to be 
adults. Correct?
Surely there must be consideration  to reality and fairness (in 
economical terms) in education policies.
Is it possible to get the message of free software to these policy 
makers too.

> > Then free software sellers can get equivalent access to
> > the schools and schools can save money by not paying for things they
> > don't use.
> >    
> Not quite sure how it works, but the OFT could declare MSSA unlawful and
MSSA == M$ Schools Agreement ....correct?

> therefore it has to stop. But then MS could replace it with a lawful
> agreement. If the OFT judged that bulk disounts in essence were a loss
> leader to education to shut out competition they could regulate the
> price up or down although I think that less likely. 
Is there any document up on the internet explaining this in detail or is 
it something that is being currently campaigned for?
Sounds very reasonable though (any such moves against snake oil merchants ).

> Making them charge
> 450 quid a station for office would certainly migrate a lot of achools
> to OO.org!
...and many other very capable software that value many freedoms of the 
future generation.
This will be exceptionally good for local SMEs providing such solutions. 
I can think of few good reasons w.r.t customisability and better 
education straight away.

>  
>
> > If MS use this case as a reason to get rid of the Schools Agreement,
> > I will be wondering whether they were already planning to do that and
> > just found a handy scapegoat.
> >    
>
> And then Campus agreement? Don't think so. Then there are enterprise
> agreements. If that happened their would be a major rebellion by
> customers and gov would have to foot the bill in the public sector. It
> would migrate people to free software quicker than anything but it would
> be painful for a while. Not likely to happen IMHO.
>
>  
>
> > I'm a little confused by your later claim.  How has MS requiring you to
> > pay for machines not running their software had any effect on their
> > competitors' pricing?  Surely whatever the competitor does will have no
> > effect because the school has already bought MS?
> >    
>
> I think he means there is an incentive to get low cost software into
> schools as a loss leader to hook the kids. This isn't likely to be the
> case except with the few big corporates such as MS Adobe et al. It also
> block out free software and reduces the reason to develop alternatives
> so I don't think the argument is that cut and dried. Could well be bad
> in the long term. Drug dealers give their stuff away free so they can
> charge a premium when the client is hooked. Seems to me a comparable
> situation.
>
>  
>
> > > As a teacher I feel that it is my job to show what is out there and try to
> > > give an unbiased view of the advantages and disadvantages (at times this is
> > > very hard)
> > >      
> > Bias always exists.  
Bias towards solutions that respect our freedom to share and cooperate 
is very important....more than the need for software even.

Put more practically ....
I will want my children to learn from every aspect of school life not 
just learn some things that are taught in 'morals class' at 10 am and 
then be forced to get involved in contradictory immoral practices at 11 
am in the 'IT class'.

another example ....a kid, through many possible reasons requires the  
same software used in school at home on the same family machine....I 
wonder how non-free software will be able to help out here...

> > We can only hope to compensate for it or reduce it
> > to insignificant error noise.  Anyone claiming otherwise can have a free
> > lecture about statistics when I get some more tuits.  ;-)
> >    
>
> If free software thrives you will be able to demonstrate say several WPs
> all legally in a library - in fact with all using XML open file
> standards the pupils could choose to use the one they prefer and pass
> documents to each other unhindered. This is an educational goal worth
> going through some pain to achieve.
>  
Regards,

Ramanan

PS: Simon, this is the list for <www.affs.org.uk>