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Re: [gnugo-devel] 9x9 opening stats against humans
From: |
Gunnar Farnebäck |
Subject: |
Re: [gnugo-devel] 9x9 opening stats against humans |
Date: |
Fri, 09 Jul 2004 03:34:01 +0200 |
User-agent: |
EMH/1.14.1 SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.2 (Yagi-Nishiguchi) APEL/10.3 Emacs/21.3 (sparc-sun-solaris2.9) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) |
Doug wrote:
> Since self play doesn't seem like a good way to test move quality, I
> took a look at play against people. I downloaded all May 2004 games
> from all the KGS bots running various versions of GnuGo [1], and
> selected 9x9 games with no handicap and komi between 5.5 and 8.0. I
> did no selection based on opponent. I looked at win frequency by
> opening pattern, and also looked for opening patterns played by pros
> [2] which were not played at all.
Interesting analysis.
> * Pros do indeed play moves that the amateurs in the original training
> set played rarely or never.
How big set of pro games do you have? (Just curious, it does of course
not matter for this conclusion.)
> * It will take a lot of data to prove mediocre moves as definitively
> worse.
No question about that.
> * The move weighting, based on popularity in the original training set,
> seems problematic. First, since a deweighted move is played more rarely,
> it takes more games to figure out if it's better or worse than the higher
> rated moves.
That's problematic as far as evaluation goes, but I don't think it's a
direct playing strength problem.
> Second, the more moves are weighted, the more predictable they
> become.
But the higher weighted moves let us stay in the fuseki database
longer, usually reducing the predictability.
> And finally, it looks like some of the best moves are played
> fairly rarely, so changing the weights could improve average play.
That may very well be possible.
> I hope to figure out how to add the pro game patterns to the existing set.
It's probably easier and/or better to recompile the database from
scratch, assuming you have or can get a large enough training set. You
might want to patch extract_fuseki.c to give higher weight to the pro
games.
> Would anyone mind if I changed the weights at the same time?
Probably not, although it might depend on by what principles you
intend to modify them. :-)
> Also, does anyone have the original human-human 9x9 training set
> around?
The current fuseki databases were created by MÃ¥ns Ullerstam three
years ago. He is no longer on the list but you can try to mail him
privately to see if he still has the games around.
/Gunnar
- Re: [gnugo-devel] 9x9 opening stats against humans,
Gunnar Farnebäck <=