Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Fight Trademark with Libremark

[Aurélien DESBRIÈRES]

Joshua Gay <jgay@fsf.org> writes:

>> This point make me think that with trademark we are not Free As In
>> Freedom and so, we all need something more corresponding to our way of
>> think: Freedom.
>
> Can you please explain what you mean? For example, we say that free
> software is free as in freedom (or a matter of liberty not price). But
> when someone asks us to explain further, we explain that by "freedom" we
> are referring to a specific set of freedoms: The freedom to run the
> program, the freedom to share it with others, the freedom to study and
> make changes it to the program, and the freedom to share the changes you
> have made with others. Perhaps it would be help to complete a sentence
> along these lines: "with trademarks, I do not have the freedom to: [fill
> in the blank]".

Joshua Gay you are right that I am not very clear.

With trademarks, I do not have the freedom to use a part of word to
create a service that use that part of name which is important in the
denomiation of the service itself.

For a dev git[xyz] is a git[service] then the front page do the rest
explaining what it does really.

But in the WWW world that is very important when you consider how works
most of search engine on the name of the service itself.

When you enter in git[bull] you discover that a world of free software
is not gratis software but free as in freedom software, git[bull] is by
the way another doors to discover that a world of fully free solution
exist and works just fine.


> Also, below I have shared some of the things the FSF has stated about
> trademark. Perhaps you could compare and contrast your own position with
> ours? Is your position that of 'with trademark we are not free as in
> freedom' compatible with the FSF's position, use, and policies around
> trademark? If not, can you explain the differences?
>
> "The purpose of Trademark law, by contrast, was not intended to promote
> any particular way of acting, but simply to enable buyers to know what
> they are buying." https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html
>
> Here is a summary that more or less captures the position of the FSF on
> trademark as it applies to free software:
>
>   Trademarks are associated with some software. For example, the name
>   of a program may be trademarked, or its interface may display a
>   trademarked logo. Often, the use of these marks will be controlled
>   in some way; in particular, developers are commonly asked to remove
>   references to the trademark from the software when they modify it.
>
>   In extreme cases, these restrictions may effectively render the
>   program nonfree. It is unfair for someone to ask you to remove a
>   trademark from modified code if that trademark is scattered all
>   throughout the original source. As long as the practical
>   requirements are reasonable, however, free system distributions may
>   include these programs, either with or without the trademarks.
>
>   Similarly, the distribution itself may hold particular
>   trademarks. It is not a problem if modification requires removal of
>   these trademarks, as long as they can readily be removed without
>   losing functionality.
>
> The GNU GPL version 3 allows users modifying a work to, notwithstanding
> any other provision of the license, to add terms "Declining to grant
> rights under trademark law for use of some trade names, trademarks, or
> service marks;" http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.html#section7
>
> I would also like to point out that GNU is a registered trademark of the
> FSF and we do from time to time enforce this trademark.

Sounds good, but (as I already say I am not a lawyer).

I think the user need a true differenciation, from the word to the logo
itself, by saying, I use libremark, we directly understand that is not
trademark. (so next coming, what is libremark ...)

To be clear, I do not stand to do or keep libremark for me, i have just
act to give us (FSF people / thinker) a chance to have something to be
free to move and act. 

(that mean that at the time that you (FSF board) request me for the
domain name, it will be yours ... like logo that is already free
licensed)

We (FSF associated member / activist / ...) demonstrate that freedom is
possible in many ways.

Trademark (black) point is another link to proprietary world that we
have to cut and present a higher solution for freedom.

I am sure that FSF Board have good lawyer/philosopher to make LibreMark
powerfull and repected.

One more freedom action on the FSF desk board :-)




>> 
>> Thank *LibreMark* Born \o/
>> 
>> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:LibreMark
>> 
>> Now, we need lawyer improvement to make it powerfull and to protect our
>> freedom higher.
>
> It might be useful to have a group focused on discussing trademarks.
> However, after reading the LibreMark page, it is not clear to me the
> purpose, goals, or function of the LibreMark. It might be that there is
> a reason for the LibreMark, but, I'm hesitant to start something new
> from scratch if it is not necessary.
>
> To help us better understand what it is you are trying to accomplish,
> perhaps it would help (and be productive in general) if more context was
> provided. For example, maybe you could set the stage by providing a
> couple paragraphs that give some basic overview of trademarks, such as:
>
> * The purpose of trademark and related concepts (e.g., service marks,
> certification marks, Wordmark, trade dress).
> * Classification of trademarks and the general regulatory framework they
> exist inside of
> * How to identify trademarks and service marks (e.g, ™, ℠, ®), and the
> difference between registered vs unregistered trademarks.
>
> Then you could transition to how trademark, service marks, etc. apply to
> free software. And then you could could state the problem you wish to
> solve by creating the libremark and how you imagine the LibreMark to
> work or be used.
>
> For related or supporting activity around this group or effort, I would
> be interested in understanding more about some of the initiatives and
> activities by others in our community. For example:
>
> * I would like to know what people think of the Model Trademark
> Guidelines for FLOSS projects: <http://modeltrademarkguidelines.org>. I
> have not had a chance to look into this project but I hope to do so
> sometime in the future.
>
> * I would be interested in a review of the Wikimedia Foundation
> trademark policy and the quality/usefulness of their supporting materials:
>  * <http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Trademark_policy>
>  * <http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Visual_identity_guidelines>
>  * <http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Trademark_policy-purpose>
>  * <http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Trademark_policy-FAQ>
>
> Best,
>
> Josh
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-- 
Aurelien Desbrieres
GitBull.org - Community coding