Re: Matrix communication protocol.

[Msavoritias]

   As I said they mainly had issues with the UI/UX and some features that
   were missing like stickers. I searched for the second one and there
   didn't seem to be an intention to implement stickers.
   Things don't seems to be changing on that front though. The last client
   on that page Zom moved to matrix too.
   If you ask me they are different crowds. XMPP is for techies with no
   chance of going mainstream.
   Matrix takes a more radical approach and even now it is used more than
   XMPP. With XMPP being mostly gone since Google and Facebook Stopped
   using it. Gone outside of the tech communities that is. Only place I
   see recommending it is for the enccryption.
   If you ask me I would prefer a copyleft protocol. Because neither XMPP
   or Matrix can stop themselves from being EEE. But I will take what i
   can get.
   In mobile at least there doesn't seem to be enough development o utside
   of Conversations. I know it is pretty popular with privacy folks
   though.
   So maybe it finds some use there.
   I like the standarization you said the community is trying. But I think
   its too late for that. With all the fragmentation and people moving on.
   You are right that people still use it but I think it is more like IRC.
   It is good for the minority but you are not going to convince new users
   to join there.
   We should look how to convince new users to join in modern protocols.
   If Conversations are the benchmark for how much behind XMPP is in
   capabilities that a modern user wants, then I don't know if it can be
   overcomed.
   MSavoritias

   On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 03:00, Denver Gingerich <denver@ossguy.com>
   wrote:

   On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 09:51:4 3PM +0200, Msavoritias wrote:

     Conversations is badly designed. I am talking from experience trying
     for people to adopt it.

   I haven't had any bad experiences getting people to adopt
   Conversations. Maybe you could be more specific about what particular
   aspects of Conversations they have issues with?

     Every other client listed on this page:
     <[1]https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html> for android is basically
     with design from twenty years ago. There doesn't seem to be new
     clients popping up. for mobile at least. In contrast Matrix
     <[2]https://matrix.org/clients/> has a lot of new clients with
     active development.

   I agree that the XMPP community could make a prettier clients page with
   screenshots and such, like Matrix has. There are at least as many XMPP
   clients under active development as there are Matrix clients.

     Its not the problem of something Conversations are missing. Although
     it misses a lot of stuff. Like stickers and widgets. The thing is
     that every client I installed had different capabilities entirely.
     It made sense when I read the phylosophy behind XMPP and Matrix
     though. Matrix wants to be ,from my perspective, a coherent
     standard. One piece. XMPP is more modular. Which explains the
     fragmentation in the XMPP ecosystem.

   True that is another thing the XMPP community could work on. We do have
   compliance suites that will tell you if your client meets a certain
   "coherent standard": [3]https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0423.html#im
   However, we haven't done enough work to advertise this or certify
   clients, so it's not yet easy to benefit from this work as a person new
   to XMPP. There seem to be enough people using XMPP for it to continue
   on an upward trajectory. It might not see the hockey stick growth that
   other protocols do, but it also hasn't flamed out, which I fear may
   happen with some of the newer, more hyped protocols. Denver
   [4]https://jmp.chat/

References

   1. https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html
   2. https://matrix.org/clients/
   3. https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0423.html#im
   4. https://jmp.chat/