Re: [RFD 1] Pragmatic Use of Nonfree Software

[Jean Louis]

* Andrew Yu via libreplanet-discuss <libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> 
[2022-04-18 09:38]:
> Free Software Community                                            A. Yu
> RFD 1                                         The 2nd School Aff. to FDU
>                                                            18 April 2022
> 
> 
>                    Pragmatic Use of Nonfree Software
>                        Request for Discussions: 1
> 
> Abstract
> 
>    Free Software is undoubtably a good thing for society.  However,
>    modern computer users are stuck in the proprietary "ecosystem" for
>    historical reasons.  This document describes the justification and
>    best current practices of using proprietary platforms to spread the
>    ideas of Free Software.

It is contradictory to FSF goals and free software philosophy. You are
now publishing on Libreplanet mailing list how we shall use
proprietary platforms. That is contradictory.

>    One of the communities that he knows about, the VF-Technic Minetest
>    community, primarily uses Discord as a means of communication by
>    players not in-game.  As the users inside are Minetest players, a
>    Free Software voxel sandbox game, similar to but much more flexible
>    and freedom-respecting than Minecraft, it is believed that the users
>    have some contact with Free Software, although they might not
>    understand the freedom part of the issue, i.e. they might be thinking
>    in terms of "open source" instead, and do not understand the harms of
>    nonfree JavaScript and services like Discord.  After sharing the
>    invite link in the VF-Technic Guild, some people joined, and we've
>    partially converted two users.

I would not say that one should promote on this mailing list usage of
proprietary software including proprietary Javascript in order to
capture attention of proprietary software users and thus convert them
to free software users. And I don't think that process works like
that. Users will find free software often on their proprietary system,
such as VLC media player or Blender or GIMP and some will read
licenses, some will follow references and some will develop free
software and so on. It works by creating and spreading free software.

Thus I think better would be to promote free software to be used, as
that alone will convert people to users of free software and free
operating systems.

> 2.  Justification
> 
>    There are numerous free replacements to proprietary services such as
>    Discord, such as Internet Relay Chat, the Extensible Messaging and
>    Presense Protocol, the Matrix protocol, and email.  As Free Software
>    activists, we generally prefer these protocols over nonfree services.
>    This section explains the reasons to consider nonfree services and
>    protocols.

It is unclear what is "non-free service" and that cannot be same as
non-free software, and non-free protocol is also not same as non-free
software.

>    Generally, users on IRC and XMPP have a fair understanding of the
>    Free Software Movement, and it is quick and easy to inform them
>    what

Not that I hold that opinion. Many users use IRC from proprietary
operating systems and by proprietary programs, and they chat on
various servers issues totally unrelated to free software. There are
many IRC servers and to say that users of IRC have fair understanding
of free software is not based on a poll. It cannot be objective
statement, thus I take it as your very subjective statement.

If you would make a poll on numerous IRC channels and then list what
at least 20 users would tell you about free software on those
channels, then I would say, alright, sounds more objective. Otherwise
it remains totally vague.

>    we mean by "free", "the four freedoms", and similar ideas.  For users
>    on the Libera Chat IRC network, which by far has the most users of
>    any network, it is exceptionally easy to introduce a user into the
>    #fsf channel for discussions with people supporting Free
>    Software.

That is right!

>    Introducing ignorant users on these protocols and platforms are a
>    day-to-day simple task.  Furthermore, the amount of users we can
>    reach on these protocols are rather limiting.  Libera has around
>    forty thousand users according to the LUSERS command, and considering
>    the fact that around 90% of these people aren't ignorant, there isn't
>    much we can do.

I don't think it is good to generally call groups of people on IRC
network "ignorant". 

>    It is true that Libera Chat and similar IRC networks, though multi-
>    centered in a technical way (i.e. multiple IRC servers form an IRC
>    network), the network is politically centralized, controlled by one
>    entity, Libera.

Yes. That is not related to free-software.

>    We currently find it hard to continue spreading basic knowledge
>    among the masses through free communication protocols.

Free communication protocols is not well defined in this document, I
would not know what you mean.

There are many ways of advertising and promotion.

>    There is one special case where using some nonfree software, and even
>    urging others to use it, can be a positive thing.

It cannot.

Additionally, you have not tell which non-free software you mean, as
you were conflating non-free protocols and non-free services to
non-free software. Those terms and subjects are not equal nor similar
to each other.

You have provided this reference:

> 8.  Normative References
> 
>    [RMSGP]    Stallman, R., "Is It Ever a Good Thing to Use a Nonfree
>               Program?", September 2013, <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/
>               is-ever-good-use-nonfree-program.en.html>.

And now you are introducing contradictory statements. 

>    That's when the use of the nonfree software aims directly at
>    putting an end to the use of that very same nonfree
>    software.[RMSGP] The author believes that the following fall
>    within this scope:
> 
>    *  Developing a free project that requires nonfree environments to
>       bootstrap;
>    *  To spread awareness of software freedom issues to users in nonfree
>       environments.

While that already takes place in the world, people communicate by
using non-free software, this document has no place in Libreplanet nor
free software groups as a way of promotion of non free software.

>    As almost all types of development can be done on most types of BSD
>    and GNU operating systems, the author hasn't found any software that
>    fit this category.

Which system do you use?

I find easy any kind of software on free operating system.

> Extending the interpretation allows for using nonfree software's
> behavior as a reference in Free Software development, though an
> arguable programming practice, may help the community to progress by
> understanding common features that users of nonfree services use.

I don't think that should be fostered by people participants on this
mailing list, neither by Libreplanet, neither by FSF or any free
software user.


Jean

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