Re: Question of Aiding and Abetting Proprietary (or non-free) Software in GNU projects

[Yasuaki Kudo]

Hi Andrew!

> Can you elaborate on what technical knowhow is related to nonfree
> software in Guix?
> 
Oh this is quite simple - 
When someone installs a Guix OS, there is a high chance that vital components 
of the computer won't work (unless "work" includes severely hampered 
performance)

And the chances are, all one needs to do to obtain the hardware manufacture's 
native performance is do is to use the regular Linux kernel package, with none 
the "de-blobbing" of LinuxLibre.  (Aside from asking the manufacturer to 
provide the Free Software-based compilation mechanism for the required BLOB, 
something that may take many years, or forever)

To use the regular Linux, all that's needed is to tweak the configuration of 
the Guix system.   When people new to the system post questions along this 
line, on the Guix Help mailing list, the typical response is either via a 
direct personal email or some suggestions, short of the direct answer.

When, out of frustration, one directly answers, he is greeted with notices 
around this being a GNU mailing list and such matters are not to be discussed.

The contradiction I see is that:

* Emacs runs on Windows.  Instructions and reasons are stated clearly (as you 
quoted) 

* Guix OS technically runs on Linux (not just LibreLinux).   However, it is not 
"advertised" (the verb seemingly preferred by the community) and even the 
discussion thereof is shunned.

So I am still left wondering 😅

-Yasu



>> We can always establish parallel communities and go it alone but it
>> still leaves the commutation rift between the parallel and the
>> original teams, sifting the efficient development for desired
>> features.
> Typically the people in the "parallel" communities also contribute back
> to us, and the only main difference is they're (hopefully pragmatically)
> enabling use of nonfree software; These people are welcome to take i.e.
> general Guix knowledge and questions to the primary lists and leave
> nonfree stuff on their lists (which are of less value to here anyways).
> 
>> Having said this, I see that GNU Emacs works on Microsoft Windows??
>> How in the world is this done if the GNU's attitude is absolute zero
>> tolerance of anything Proprietary?
> Having nonfree software in an otherwise free operating system isn't the
> same as porting free software to nonfree operating systems.  (There are
> people who could elaborate better than me on this issue.)
> 
> Quoting Emacs's Website:
>> The purpose of the GNU system is to give users the freedom that
>> proprietary software takes away from its users. Proprietary operating
>> systems (like other proprietary programs) are an injustice, and we aim
>> for a world in which they do not exist.
>> 
>> To improve the use of proprietary systems is a misguided goal. Our aim,
>> rather, is to eliminate them. We include support for some proprietary
>> systems in GNU Emacs in the hope that running Emacs on them will give
>> users a taste of freedom and thus lead them to free themselves.
> 
> ... which should explain it with fair clarity.
> 
>> I wish to leave my sincere comment that in no way I am trying to
>> create a hostile conversation - I just want to know the dynamics of
>> these seemingly contradictory outcomes.   For example, is Emacs for
>> Windows indeed developed by a parallel, non-GNU-aligned community?
> In most circumstances we assume discussion to be of kind origin, which I
> indeed believe you are.
> 
> --
> Andrew Yu
> https://wew.andrewyu.org/
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