RE: [Swarm-Modelling] RE: Brahms

[Christopher J. Mackie]

Thanks for the reply, Maarten; I'm glad you see the Brahms license to be 
comparable to Java--which is recently released under a 'true' open source 
license, I am happy to note :-)
 
However, there is an important difference between a programming language 
released by an immense multinational to enterprise customers with whom the 
company has many other mutual points of leverage (and for which there are now 
open source compilers), and a programming language released by a startup to 
individual customers who have no other points of leverage; at least, none on 
which they can rely, absent any clear understanding of the business model. In 
the former case, we can all assume with great confidence that Sun won't make 
any moves that will alienate its customer base, and that no financial exigency 
will force it to do so; in the latter case, we can have no such assurance. In 
fact, part of the reason Sun finally open-sourced Java, after years of 
pressure, was that the company's financial situation became dire enough that 
customers were starting to explore other options, precisely out of the concern 
that Sun in its need might start to seek revenue streams from Java licensing.
 
All this to say, (politely I hope :-), that you're not Sun, and Brahms isn't 
Java, and some of us will need a little more licensing assurance if we're going 
to bet our work-products, publications, and careers on it. I'd prefer open 
source, to be sure, but it's not the only way to accomplish what I'm talking 
about. You could, for instance, simply change the license to allow use of the 
current version in perpetuity, provided it's only for research and 
non-commercial purposes. That will leave you free to explore any money-making 
options you can find, even to the point of commercializing the entire product 
in some future version, and still protect me and my work today.
 
In other words, I have *no* problems with you making money at this: your hard 
work should be rewarded as much as anyone else's, and especially if Brahms 
proves valuable to me, I'm eager to see you secure revenues sufficient to 
prevent any need for the kind of conversation that Glen and Marcus have been 
having :-). But, for exactly the same reasons you outline, I'm concerned about 
protecting my own intellectual property; namely, the models I build in Brahms. 
As long as you can take Brahms away at any time, without reason, then even if 
it's free, it's too expensive for me.
 
I hope this helps,  --Chris

________________________________

From: address@hidden on behalf of Maarten Sierhuis
Sent: Fri 11/24/2006 2:30 AM
To: Agent-based modeling
Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] RE: Brahms


Chris, 

I see the Brahms license in the same way as the Sun Java license, as long as it 
is used for non-commercial use. The Sun Java license can be revoked by Sun at 
any time, it actually says "TERMINATION.  This Agreement is effective until 
terminated." 

Maybe we should change the "non-commercial" part and let people use it for 
whatever, whenever, but I feel that commercial firms, who make money of of a 
product, should pay for its development. How much is up to the developers. I 
would never want to ask much for Brahms, but as is evident from the Swarm SDG 
debate, developing a tool is a time consuming and difficult thing. 

To be honest, we created this license more than 10 years ago, and I haven't 
looked at it ever since. However, as an example of how easy we are, we just had 
someone from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute ask for a five year license key, 
and without question we simply gave it to them. 

One issue that withholds me from making Brahms GPL is the bureaucracy at NASA. 
It is just too much hassle to deal with the lawyers. Until I do this, we can't 
give away source code. But, in my opinion, Brahms is like Java. You don't need 
the source code, it is a language and a virtual machine to execute the compiled 
byte code. Right now, as long as you do research you can use it for free. You 
also get a development environment (the Composer) developed in Java. We're 
working on a free Eclipse plugin. We are developing much more modeling 
capabilities than are currently in Eclipse. 

If you want to do something commercial with it, just ask and we can figure it 
out together. I have not had any commercial firm ask for a commercial license, 
although we do have commercial firms using Brahms for DARPA and SBIR projects.


Doei ... MXS

_______________________________________________________________________


 Dr. ing. Maarten Sierhuis                 USRA/RIACS
 Senior Scientist                               Mail Stop B269-1
 Human-Centered Computing            NASA Ames Research Center
                                                      Moffett Field, CA 94035
 e-mail: address@hidden              
 Phone: (650) 604-4917                                                          
                                                             
 Fax: (650) 604-4036


 http://homepage.mac.com/msierhuis
 http://www.agentisolutions.com <http://www.agentisolutions.com/> 
 http://ic.arc.nasa.gov/projects/brahms/index.html
 http://www.riacs.edu <http://www.riacs.edu/> 
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On Nov 23, 2006, at 7:29 PM, Christopher J. Mackie wrote:


        Maarten; I took a quick look at the Brahms web site, and it certainly 
seems intriguing. Any idea when you're going to have the license issues worked 
out? Some (not I) would be happy with a commercial license; others (including 
I) would prefer GPL or equivalent; but few serious modelers, I suspect, are 
going to want to invest much effort in a language that enforces a license--even 
a 'free' license--that can be revoked by you, unilaterally and without cause, 
on 30 days notice.

        
http://www.agentisolutions.com/anonymous/pub/brahms/agentenvironment/v1.0b/License.html
 
<https://owa.mellon.org/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.agentisolutions.com/anonymous/pub/brahms/agentenvironment/v1.0b/License.html>
 

        --Chris

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