Re: Extra space after punctuation marks

[Greg A. Woods]

[ On Tue, January 16, 1996 at 13:17:54 (GMT), Franck Arnaud wrote: ]
> Subject: Re: Extra space after punctuation marks
>
> In message <address@hidden> Blake McBride writes:
> > 
> > As you know, it is customary and proper to put extra space after 
> > punctuation marks which end sentences.
> 
> This is arguable. As you noted, this custom does not exist at all in some 
> other languages (eg French). Even in English, your assertion that it is 
> "proper" is debatable, I've heard that this was an old fashion custom 
> that was not considered worth using anymore in modern typography (this 
> is hearsay though, and I'd be pleased to see a definite typographical 
> reference on whether or not it is a good idea in modern typography).

I would argue that it is indeed proper, and that it is only lack of
formal training that has prevented it from being widely known.  After
all, most computer users don't have formal training in using a
typewriter keyboard.
 
>From my short formal training of typewriter keyboard use, I can assure
you that it is the convention to use two spaces after sentences.  I
believe the original troff papers make reference to this practice too.

I've heard claims that it is/was a typographical convention to use a
"wide" space between sentences, and a minimum "narrow" space between
words in a sentence.  It is most definitely a feature of troff to note
the end of a sentence when it encounters in the input either two spaces,
or a punctuation mark and a newline.  RTFM.

> I've just got a quick look around at a few publications likely to be 
> designed by experienced typographers and none seems to do that.

Certainly this seems to be a common practice in most books in my
library, including those that were published and printed in the UK or
Europe, to use a wider space between sentences than between words
(though I admit I haven't done any careful measurements, since I'm not
exactly sure how to take kerning and fill space into account).  This is
particularly obvious in books that seem to have an over-all good look.

Have you checked the "Chicago Manual of Style" (I think that's what it's
called)?  I was going to buy a copy once, but it was over $100!  Other
books on typography have also been similarly priced, so I don't own any
of them either.

You might also look at training information and style guides for
typewritten material.  I don't have my old typing class text any more,
unfortunately.  I for one would think that a batch style text processing
system should cater its input format mostly towards the typist.

> In the case modern typography would have condemned this old custom, it 
> would seem odd to see Lout with a feature to promote bad taste. If 
> both are deemed acceptable typographical customs, then it could be an 
> option, but maybe not the default.

I don't think it's bad taste to use a wider space at the end of a
sentence.

To the root of it all though, you surely must admit it is easier to read
typewritten (fixed-width font) documents which have an extra space
between the sentences.  I certainly think so.  Perhaps that's only
because I'm accustomed to it, but I'd say it's an easy thing to get used
to....

> Solution 3: Use a text editor that treats paragraphs as a single logical 
> line, 
> that is place a physical newline only at the end of a paragraph (and wrap the 
> paragraph-line to the width of the text editor window or screen of course). 
> Even Windows' Notepad can do that. This solution does not have the problems 
> of 
> solution 1 and 2.

Yuck!  ;-)

Well, maybe that's OK for the actual editor screen, but it is not
acceptable for the ASCII/Latin-?/UTF-? interchange format.

BTW, at least in emacs-19.28 the default setting for
sentence-end-double-space's value is 't', and its documentation string
says "*Non-nil means a single space does not end a sentence."  Mind you
the auto-wrap and fill algorithms in 19.28 are all in dis-agreement as
to how to treat this feature, esp. in face of a '.\n'.  As I recall from
past reading in the emacs mailing lists this variable was added to keep
some French user happy.

Normal text editors, including vi and emacs, have a flexible and
user-definable way of describing the boundaries of a paragraph.  In
ASCII/Latin-?/UTF-? text the most obvious and visible method is to use a
blank line.  This use of blank lines is also very common for typewritten
documents.

It seems to me this practice of dropping the extra (wide) space between
sentences is a recent thing (since the mid-80's), and leaves the same
bad taste in my mouth as does "the new math" and similar so-called
"improvements."

In any case, I also strongly feel that Lout needs some improvement in
this area of treating input whitespace.  Another feature I'd like to see
is the ability to ignore the leading whitespace on the input line.  It's
very difficult to lay out input text in a pleasing way otherwise, and I
for one would like to use input layout to indicate some of the document
structure to the user.

-- 
                                                        Greg A. Woods

+1 416 443-1734                 VE3TCP                  robohack!woods
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