Re: On a programming manual for Lout

[Valeriy E. Ushakov]

On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 17:56:37 +0100, Graham Douglas wrote:

> > I've been actually contemplating (for quite some time) writing a
> > walk-throgh for some standard lout packages (sort of what "TCP/IP
> > Illustrated Vol.2" does for BSD TCP/IP stack).  If there's enough
> > interest in that I'll try to commit some time to actually write it.
> 
> Hey, Uwe, "If there's enough interest"... :-) I can't see there
> being anything OTHER than a great deal of interest.  However, my
> personal bias would be for material which outlines the fundamental
> concepts that one must grasp in order to become proficient in Lout
> programming.  With lots, and lots, and... of examples.

Well, that's the point.  Standard packages provide *wealth* of real
world examples.  Chapter 4 of Expert's Guide document some of these
practices, but it's based on packages for Lout 2.x. [It is still quite
enlightening, nonetheless].

Off the top of my head (I mean it ;-), here are some of the points that
are well worth expanding on:

. macros - why they are here, when to use them, why use them

. scoping (lout qua language)

. galley attachment - this is *esoteric*, so a very *detailed*
  explanation is necessary.

Re the last bullet - for example, considering your question about
enclosed text.  Someone reading Expert's Guide might say, "oh there's
that @Enclose thing", so I'll use it in something like" (in an
outline):

    def @EnclosedPlace { @Galley }

    def @EnclosedList { @EnclosedPlace // @EnclosedList }

    def @Enclosed into { @EnclosedPlace&&preceding } ... { ... }

The problem here (and I admit, that this is often my *first* impulse
to write code like the above) is that @EnclosedPlace will be promoted
into @TextPlace and @TextPlace will be promoted into @ColPlace later,
so in the code above there's no chance to get @Enclose triggered on
page breaks, since page breaks happen at a different time, so you have
to provide in the page structure for things like this (@AfterLinePlace
in this case).

Of course Expert's Guide has this all explained (very tersly), but
extracting (inferring!) this insight from the guide might prove
problematic for someone who's only approaching Lout.


> I hope my enthusiasm is not deflated by a total lack of
> interest/response from other Lout users ;-).

I think that's ok.  Silence on the list doesn't necessarily imply the
lack of interest.  It is my belief that people using lout are mature
professionals and so the silence is not an indication of indifference,
but rather is a consequence of a professional attitude of people that
do their "home work" and post to the list only when they feel they
encounter real problems.  I can't overemphasize how I appreciate this,
it's always a pleasure to be able to help people that care to learn.
You know you effort is not wasted.


PS: We have a TGIF and a birthday party here, so while reading these
posts of mine take into account the quantity of beer I've consumed ;)

SY, Uwe
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