Re: Trouble calculating fully live take points

[Lasse Hjorth Madsen]

Hmm ... you may be on to something. To clarify:

1. I use the Analyze|Market Window dialog box to generate take points via GNU.

2. I think the dead cube take points reported here must be gammon adjusted -- they clearly depend on the value that you put in the "gammon rate" window.

3. Yes, the values that I or GNU get are not for a specific position, only a specific match score -- and specific gammon rates.

4. Yes, I also take "for this position" to mean "for those gammon rates".

The only GNU generated take point I can't reproduce is the live one, *when gammons are included*. Worse, I've run out of ideas of how to reverse engineer their calculation -- except maybe for examining the source code (thank you for that suggestion).

/Lasse

Den søn. 11. jun. 2023 kl. 19.12 skrev Timothy Y. Chow <tchow@math.princeton.edu>:

On Sun, 11 Jun 2023, Lasse Hjorth Madsen wrote:
> Thanks, Tim. I don't think the problem is simply that I fail to factor
> gammons in, because my dead-cube take points agree with GNU, also for
> gammonish positions. It is only when I try to *both* account for gammons
> and a fully live cube, that I see a discrepancy.

But it could be that GNU's dead-cube take point is *not* gammon-adjusted,
while the "live-cube" take point *is* gammon-adjusted.  There's wide
consensus on what the dead-cube take point should mean, but there's much
less consensus on how to define the "live-cube" take point.

Another small thing to note is that the dead-cube take point doesn't
depend on the specific position; it depends only on the match score.  But
in the GNU documentation, when it quotes a live-cube take point, it says
that it's the live-cube take point *for that position*.  If the live-cube
take point depended only on the match score, then why would they say that
it's for that *position* as opposed to for that *match score*?  That they
say it's for the position is (to me) some weak evidence that they're
taking into account gammons (which of course vary from position to
position).

Tim