Re: Changes for emacs 28

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 12.09.2020 09:12, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Cc: rekado@elephly.net, ghe@sdf.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org,
> >   drew.adams@oracle.com
> > From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> > Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 00:00:48 +0300
> >
> > > As long as we keep this on the menu and the tool bar, there will be no
> > > reason for a "war".
> >
> > So there will be contradiction between the menu and the keyboard?
>
> Yes.  We already have quite a few of them, so one or two more cannot
> hurt.

I'm looking to improve the current state of affairs.

Also: confusion about certain basic operations are likely to hit new 
users harder than confusions about other things.

> > > How can it be confusing that 2 different commands produce different
> > > results?  Why isn't it confusing today, when we already have these 2
> > > commands?
> >
> > The menu item doesn't exactly say which command it is invoking.
>
> It does, if you invoke "C-h k".

Irrelevant, as long as we're talking about new user experience.

> If you don't ask Emacs what the menu item invokes, then the text of
> the menu item and the help-echo string are the only description you
> get, and that is so for all the other menu items.  So there's nothing
> new here.

Hence we shouldn't create a confusing menu item like this.

> > So I think that statement is missing the point: we should endeavor for
> > predictable and consistent sets of menu items, key bindings, and other
> > features.
>
> I agree, but the criteria for "predictable and consistent" might be
> something other than "make the keybindings and menus invoke identical
> commands".  Because if that's the criteria, we are already in
> violation of them.

That doesn't mean we're not allowed to improve things in specific cases.