Re: [Gzz] PEG: canvas_text--mudyc

[Matti Katila]

On Fri, 2 May 2003, Tuomas Lukka wrote:
> On Fri, May 02, 2003 at 03:39:45AM +0300, Matti Katila wrote:
>> There are at least three disagreeing circumtances:
>> wysiwyg, text editability, spatial positions.
> I think wysiwyg is the least important of the three..

I agree. Otoh, many people doesn't understand why does something look 
different in computer screen than in paper found from printers.
This is not important now.

>> Issues
>> ------
>> 
>> - If we generate rst to pdf does it brake the 
>>   xanalogical link doesn't it?
>> 
>>     RESOLVED:
>>     Yes, if we *replace* the text canvas with
>>     page canvas. Currently idea is to use pdfs from outside 
>>     and annotate those. So the question is why can't we 
>>     build a new article from annotations and link xanalogically
>>     the annotation canvas to pdf generated from it?
> 
> If I cut&paste a sentence from an email to an article, I'd like that
> xanalogical connection to remain to the actual *text*. (ISSUE: does it?)

In text canvas or in rst generated canvas(differs basicly by text 
formatting from text canvas) - yes, but in generated pdf pages - no.
It can be made - just putting xuLink from *text* to *pdf page* - but I 
don't know how we can get coordinates from latex for that.

> I think the question is: why is it that you want people using fenfire
> to read the PDF file generated at all? (ISSUE: why?).

Umh!?  Why do people use fenfire at all for reading PDF files?
Because it should be one of the bests for it and provide xanalogical 
links. If it isn't enough good for our own purpose how could others use 
it?

And if we can almoust write one article with fenfire why shouldn't we 
able to see the result in fenfire? I see this very natural.

>> What's it all about?
>> --------------------
>> 
>> This proposal is all about:
>> 
>>     - spatial placing of different paragraphs into one canvas.
>>     - one paragraph includes sentences one after the other.
>>     - sentence includes nodes(as words) one after the other.
> What, a node is a word?

A Node is a node. As it currently is, isn't it? A node is a key for 
enfilade. In gzz's pp node is a note and that can be for any length and 
contain any content from a letter or empty to whole book. 
Argh, unbelievable. If you want to associate two words from different 
papers it might not be possible if they belongs in bigger note.

Pp association is poor man's way to make xuLinks ;)

> Please explain a lot more detail. This description doesn't.. 
> What is the underlying structure, and what are the things the user sees?

Pp currently:
() -node

    (Paper)  --PAPER.contains---> (A note)

    (A note) --SPATIAL.coordsX--> literal
    (A note) --SPATIAL.coordsY--> literal
 
This proposal adds additional information to this:
"RST" is only for the idea, also short name. 

    (Paper) --RST.beginParagraph--> (RST.Paragraph)

    (RST.Paragraph) --SPATIAL.coordsX--> literal
    (RST.Paragraph) --SPATIAL.coordsY--> literal

    (RST.Paragraph) --RST.firstSentence--> (RST.Sentence)

    (RST.Sentence)  --RST.nextSentence-->  (RST.Sentence)
    (RST.Sentence)  --RST.nextNode-->      (A note)
    
    (A note)        --RST.nextNode-->      (A note)

(A note)s' coordinates are generated because of they are additive to 
RST.Paragraph's coordinates. Also think notes as words or letters or 
numbers. At least not as a one ugly big note.

>> PDF generating from rst converted to latex. This would make FenPDF
>> also as a article productive wholeness.
> Yes, this would be good. It still doesn't explain why you
> then want to import the *generated* article into FenPDF?

1) Why should we see them with other readers?
    - Is FenPDF worse than other readers?

2) It brakes xanalogical model!
    - Yes, but say a application where we currently use true xanalogical 
      system.
    - We can provide link to canvas where it is constructed from.
    - We can provide xuLinks between PermaScrolls (this is not very easy 
      task unfortunately, I think(coordinates from latex)) 
    - You said that in fenfire should not be a system which doesn't use 
      xanalogical manner. So, one issue is that would we need transitional 
      period when we allow, i.e. one link travel to original content - 
      to the xanalogical world.

3) Why outworld pdfs are better than our generated pdfs?
    - We still need to communicate to outside of xanalogical world.
    

   -Matti