[libreplanet-discuss] Great campaigns & Accessibility guidelines

[Charley Quinton]

On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 11:00 AM,
<libreplanet-discuss-request@libreplanet.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: We need a Great campaign To tell the programmers to
>       improve their programs To work well with the screen Reader
>       (Fabio Pesari)
>    2. Re: We need a Great campaign To tell the programmers to
>       improve their programs To work well with the screen Reader
>       (Ali Abdul Ghani)
>    3. Re: We need a Great campaign To tell the programmers to
>       improve their programs To work well with the screen Reader
>       (Fabio Pesari)
>    4. Re: We need a Great campaign To tell the programmers to
>       improve their programs To work well with the screen Reader
>       (Ali Abdul Ghani)
>    5. Re: We need a Great campaign To tell the programmers to
>       improve their programs To work well with the screen Reader
>       (Daniel Pocock)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 09:25:20 +0100
> From: Fabio Pesari <fabiop@gnu.org>
> To: Ali Abdul Ghani <blade.vp2020@gmail.com>,   libreplanet-discuss
>         <libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
> Cc: hpp-feedback@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] We need a Great campaign To tell
>         the programmers to improve their programs To work well with the screen
>         Reader
> Message-ID: <56F10170.60801@gnu.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On 03/21/2016 12:20 PM, Ali Abdul Ghani wrote:
>> hi
>> A lot of programs do not work with screen readers
>> and Now, the problem has become much Larger
>> And its became a problem in the web after the appearance of html5
>>
>> now aMany Web applications do not work with screen readers
>> Most programmers do not care for the  screen reader when writing programs
>> This makes the blind use computers with difficulty
>> and They can not use a lot of programs
>>
>>
>> We need a Great campaign To tell the programmers to improve their
>> programs To work well with the  screen  Reader
>>
>> in fact I can not make this campaign Alone and I want your help and
> your support
>>
>> have fun and be free
>> ali miracle
>
> Hi Ali,
>
> I think it is a shame that such an important portion of users are not
> given sufficient consideration. Programs should be designed with
> accessibility in mind, and there should be strong guidelines to make
> sure they can be operated by everyone who can operate a computer.
>
> My suggestion is this: what do you think about adding a field in the
> Free Software Directory which says if a program can be used by blind
> users or not?
>
> Also, what are your personal suggestions to improve the usability of
> programs for blind users? Are there any guidelines online that
> developers should follow? Can you tell us more about how a blind
> GNU/Linux user would typically use a computer?
>
> I think most developers and designers are simply ignorant about this
> issue, and it would really be helpful if someone familiar with it could
> give the community some inputs.
>
> I agree with you that a big campaign is needed, so I'm putting the High
> Priority Projects maintainers and the FSF in CC. They already listed
> accessibility as a high priority project but I am pretty sure you could
> help them understand the issues blind users face better and they could
> help you organize a campaign.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 01:29:30 -0800
> From: Ali Abdul Ghani <blade.vp2020@gmail.com>
> To: Fabio Pesari <fabiop@gnu.org>
> Cc: hpp-feedback@gnu.org,       libreplanet-discuss
>         <libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
> Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] We need a Great campaign To tell
>         the programmers to improve their programs To work well with the screen
>         Reader
> Message-ID:
>         <CAHWa5uexz7T_5zoesedpSMWQtoLOWu11h+SxEZyRL2rT5ZE=BA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>> I agree with you that a big campaign is needed, so I'm putting the High
>> Priority Projects maintainers and the FSF in CC. They already listed
>> accessibility as a high priority project but I am pretty sure you could
>> help them understand the issues blind users face better and they could
>> help you organize a campaign.
> THNX,
> its seme They dont listed accessibility as a high priority project
> I cant find it
> se
> http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/
> have fun and be free
> ali miracle
>
>
> 2016-03-22 0:25 ??????-08:00, Fabio Pesari <fabiop@gnu.org>:
>> On 03/21/2016 12:20 PM, Ali Abdul Ghani wrote:
>>> hi
>>> A lot of programs do not work with screen readers
>>> and Now, the problem has become much Larger
>>> And its became a problem in the web after the appearance of html5
>>>
>>> now aMany Web applications do not work with screen readers
>>> Most programmers do not care for the  screen reader when writing programs
>>> This makes the blind use computers with difficulty
>>> and They can not use a lot of programs
>>>
>>>
>>> We need a Great campaign To tell the programmers to improve their
>>> programs To work well with the  screen  Reader
>>>
>>> in fact I can not make this campaign Alone and I want your help and
>> your support
>>>
>>> have fun and be free
>>> ali miracle
>>
>> Hi Ali,
>>
>> I think it is a shame that such an important portion of users are not
>> given sufficient consideration. Programs should be designed with
>> accessibility in mind, and there should be strong guidelines to make
>> sure they can be operated by everyone who can operate a computer.
>>
>> My suggestion is this: what do you think about adding a field in the
>> Free Software Directory which says if a program can be used by blind
>> users or not?
>>
>> Also, what are your personal suggestions to improve the usability of
>> programs for blind users? Are there any guidelines online that
>> developers should follow? Can you tell us more about how a blind
>> GNU/Linux user would typically use a computer?
>>
>> I think most developers and designers are simply ignorant about this
>> issue, and it would really be helpful if someone familiar with it could
>> give the community some inputs.
>>
>> I agree with you that a big campaign is needed, so I'm putting the High
>> Priority Projects maintainers and the FSF in CC. They already listed
>> accessibility as a high priority project but I am pretty sure you could
>> help them understand the issues blind users face better and they could
>> help you organize a campaign.
>>
>
>
> --
> Emacs is the ground. We run around and act silly on top of it, and
> when we die, may our remnants grace its ongoing incrementation.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:07:50 +0100
> From: Fabio Pesari <fabiop@gnu.org>
> To: Ali Abdul Ghani <blade.vp2020@gmail.com>
> Cc: libreplanet-discuss <libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
> Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] We need a Great campaign To tell
>         the programmers to improve their programs To work well with the screen
>         Reader
> Message-ID: <56F143A6.6070906@gnu.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On 03/22/2016 10:29 AM, Ali Abdul Ghani wrote:
>>
>> THNX,
>> its seme They dont listed accessibility as a high priority project
>> I cant find it
>> se
>> http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/
>> have fun and be free
>> ali miracle
>
> Sorry, I meant it's in the proposals for the next list:
>
> https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/a-preliminary-analysis-of-high-priority-projects-feedback
>
> You didn't put the mailing list in CC, so I hope you don't mind I'm
> quoting your other message here.
>
>> the Blind people use screen readers to use the computer
>> the Screen reader reads texts from gui
>> then send the text to Speech engine
>> the Speech engine  converts text to Speech
>
> Do blind users use the mouse? How would a blind user set up his machine
> from scratch on a system like Trisquel or Parabola?
>
>> There are things you must do and things to avoid When you write your gui 
>> program
>> There is guidelines , but programmers do not care about it
>> for gtk
>> https://developer.gnome.org/accessibility-devel-guide/stable/gad-coding-guidelines.html.en
>> for qt
>> http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/accessible-qwidget.html
>> for web apps
>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag
>
> Which guidelines do you prefer among those?
>
> What kind of programs are problematic for blind users? Can you make an
> example, please?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 06:10:58 -0800
> From: Ali Abdul Ghani <blade.vp2020@gmail.com>
> To: Fabio Pesari <fabiop@gnu.org>
> Cc: libreplanet-discuss <libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org>
> Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] We need a Great campaign To tell
>         the programmers to improve their programs To work well with the screen
>         Reader
> Message-ID:
>         <CAHWa5ufHphSzedh5CM9Be5Q56GUvdMsYfvWLQ7UiRN9NCcCcww@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> hi
>> You didn't put the mailing list in CC, so I hope you don't mind I'm
>> quoting your other message here.
> THNX,
>> Do blind users use the mouse? How would a blind user set up his machine
>> from scratch on a system like Trisquel or Parabola?
> The blind do not use the mouse they use only the keyboard
> set up the machine from scratch on a system like Trisquel or Parabola
> is Very easy
>
> put the CD in pc then boot
> will welcome you a beautiful screen  reader
>
>> Which guidelines do you prefer among those?
> all is High importance
>
>> What kind of programs are problematic for blind users? Can you make an
>> example, please?
> There are a lot of programs
> I will give you One example in my life
> Arduino IDE
> https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/Software
> This is just a example
> in fact I have found a solution to  work programs to Arduino without
> this Arduino IDE
>
> have fun and be free
> ali miracle
>
>
> 2016-03-22 5:07 ??????-08:00, Fabio Pesari <fabiop@gnu.org>:
>> On 03/22/2016 10:29 AM, Ali Abdul Ghani wrote:
>>>
>>> THNX,
>>> its seme They dont listed accessibility as a high priority project
>>> I cant find it
>>> se
>>> http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/
>>> have fun and be free
>>> ali miracle
>>
>> Sorry, I meant it's in the proposals for the next list:
>>
>> https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/a-preliminary-analysis-of-high-priority-projects-feedback
>>
>> You didn't put the mailing list in CC, so I hope you don't mind I'm
>> quoting your other message here.
>>
>>> the Blind people use screen readers to use the computer
>>> the Screen reader reads texts from gui
>>> then send the text to Speech engine
>>> the Speech engine  converts text to Speech
>>
>> Do blind users use the mouse? How would a blind user set up his machine
>> from scratch on a system like Trisquel or Parabola?
>>
>>> There are things you must do and things to avoid When you write your gui
>>> program
>>> There is guidelines , but programmers do not care about it
>>> for gtk
>>> https://developer.gnome.org/accessibility-devel-guide/stable/gad-coding-guidelines.html.en
>>> for qt
>>> http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/accessible-qwidget.html
>>> for web apps
>>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag
>>
>> Which guidelines do you prefer among those?
>>
>> What kind of programs are problematic for blind users? Can you make an
>> example, please?
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Emacs is the ground. We run around and act silly on top of it, and
> when we die, may our remnants grace its ongoing incrementation.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 23:58:35 +0800
> From: Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro>
> To: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] We need a Great campaign To tell
>         the programmers to improve their programs To work well with the screen
>         Reader
> Message-ID: <56F16BAB.5000408@pocock.pro>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On 21/03/16 19:20, Ali Abdul Ghani wrote:
>> hi
>> A lot of programs do not work with screen readers
>> and Now, the problem has become much Larger
>> And its became a problem in the web after the appearance of html5
>>
>> now aMany Web applications do not work with screen readers
>> Most programmers do not care for the  screen reader when writing programs
>> This makes the blind use computers with difficulty
>> and They can not use a lot of programs
>>
>>
>> We need a Great campaign To tell the programmers to improve their
>> programs To work well with the  screen  Reader
>
> I agree this is important but simply "telling programmers to improve
> their programs" does not sound sufficient
>
> Ultimately, programmers need to feed their families and this often means
> prioritizing the work their employers or clients demand
>
> Each time some new requirement is imposed on free software developers
> (e.g. the requirement for Debian Developers to write the
> debian/copyright file in a machine-readable format), it appears that the
> net outcome is people actually produce (or share) less code rather than
> more.  For people who do free software development on a voluntary basis,
> having a checklist of 1001 rules that have to be observed takes out all
> the fun.
>
> I don't believe your goal is unworthy, nor do I believe it is
> unachievable, but I feel that you need to be more creative.  Think about
> creating economic incentives, helping programmers receive grants from
> charities and creating awards to recognize programmers who do what you
> feel is correct.  There are probably many more things that can be done
> too.  It is no secret that bosses of some disability charities and
> medical professionals who serve people with disabilities are receiving
> more than reasonable compensation for their work, do you agree
> programmers deserve the same?
>
> Regards,
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
>
> End of libreplanet-discuss Digest, Vol 73, Issue 15
> ***************************************************



Personally, I like 'top-level' guidelines such as -
https://www.w3.org/WAI/ - with the broadest audience, widest usage and
most global context. Hierarchies do exist in the 'real' world.

Cognitive empathy is the position of highest freedom because it is
where true understanding forms. (You can't understand how to help the
blind unless you are blind) - This is why everything has to begin in a
folded state. Revolution begins in the heart of the individual but if
the hope of a reward is at the core, the revolution is already
corrupted (rotten). For a campaign to reap the maximum benefit for the
most people, the public contract MUST exhibit iron-clad principles.

Accessibility, openness and equity is what the o3f campaign (OzoneFarm
eCommunity) has been about since its inception in the 1980s. Without
fully-qualified domains running on hosts that cannot be compromised,
we have nothing and go nowhere. The slipstream effect of corporate
drag on volunteer effort remains the problem. Everyone knows that the
'intellectual property' myth results in a serious bottleneck. Traction
= progress.

When we get online with Trisquel GNU/Linux, We'll try to contribute
more on every front. So far, I (Charley) only have been using
Trisquel-mini offline, but I hope to literally shift gears soon
bringing the OzoneFarm 'tractor' host online at ozonefarm.net - I'm
looking for partners to help develop the brand and social network at
ozonefarm.com which for now is at ozonefarm.slack.com (eeeew!)

See http://ozonefarm.org for the current version on a WordPress blog format.
Please feel free to connect with me/us at
https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Tractorcq