Re: [libreplanet-discuss] No, Stallman isn't "nuts" nor does he deserve less freedom of speech

[Eric Schultz]

None of this anything to do with free software. It has nothing to do with
the practical response to the PR crisis caused by RMS' continued refusal to
act like a responsible human being.

This entire discussion today proved the worst of the FSF to be completely
true. I'm pretty much done with this organization since it's rotten from
the President, a majority of the board down to seemingly a major portion of
it's supporters. It's proof that a large portion of the FSF supporters are
in the RMS worship movement a lot more than they're in the free software
movement.

FSF, GNU and sadly the GPL are likely doomed unless there is massive change
immediately. Based on just this discussion, it seems there's no chance of
that change. Once the free software movement is fatally wounded, I hope
many of the people here can take comfort that they got a chance to debate
the finer points of what is child sexual assault and to parse in
excruciating detail the reprehensible statements of RMS.

Eric

PS: if you disagree, don't contact me. You and I aren't in the same
movement; you're not in the free software movement, you're in the RMS
worship movement.

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 7:53 PM J.B. Nicholson <jbn@forestfield.org> wrote:

> Adrienne G. Thompson wrote:
> > The record on Richard Stallman underscores that he is driven by ethical
> > sensibilities. He's not about to approve of rape anytime soon. So let's
> > just tell rms to shut up about the Epstein matter, not to attempt to
> > defend his idols (some of which I, *personally*, know are not worth
> > defending) and to get a female FSF colleague to censor all his comments
> > pertaining to women before these comments go public.
>
> Or you could choose to not tell him or anyone else to "shut up" or accept
> a
> censorship regime. And you could also reject virtue signaling, sexism, and
> identity politics (regarding the "get a female FSF colleague"). After all,
> for all you know he could select a woman who doesn't agree with your take
> and you'll have nowhere to go because he met your sexist and identity
> politics-driven request.
>
> You could understand that he too gets freedom of speech to say things you
> don't agree with (that's what freedom of speech is for, after all). You
> could choose to continue to use your freedom of speech as you've done
> while
> also respecting his. Counterspeech seems far more appropriate for this
> situation where Stallman hasn't done anything more wrong than possibly
> hold, share, and change views some others don't like.
>
> His comments across some posts to his personal blog make me think I'm
> getting a poorly-explained half story from others on this topic.
> Considering what he wrote in
>
> https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Statements_about_Epstein)
>
> > I want to respond to the misleading media coverage of messages I posted
> > about Marvin Minsky's association with Jeffrey Epstein. The coverage
> > totally mischaracterised my statements.
> >
> > Headlines say that I defended Epstein. Nothing could be further from the
> > truth. I've called him a "serial rapist", and said he deserved to be
> > imprisoned. But many people now believe I defended him — and other
> > inaccurate claims — and feel a real hurt because of what they believe I
> > said.
> >
> > I'm sorry for that hurt. I wish I could have prevented the
> > misunderstanding.
>
> https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong)
>
> > Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong about sex
> > between an adult and a child, if the child accepted it.
> >
> > Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to
> > understand how sex with a child can harm per psychologically. This
> > changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should not do that. I
> > am grateful for the conversations that enabled me to understand why.
>
>
> https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#13_September_2019_(Epstein_donations)
>
> > Media Lab Director Joi Ito confessed that he had secretly accepted
> > donations from Epstein after MIT had decided not to do so.
> >
> > He also accepted funds for some personal activities of his own.
> >
> > That dishonesty, and conflict of interest, make his resignation
> > obligatory.
> >
> > But I fear for the effect on the Media Lab. Under Negroponte, the lab
> > was notoriously stingy and proprietary. Ito corrected that. I fear that
> > the next director will undo some of Ito's changes.
>
>
> https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#11_August_2019_(Jeffrey_Epstein_committed_suicide)
>
> > Jeffrey Epstein appears to have committed suicide in his cell. Or
> > perhaps he was murdered — it is not unusual for prisoners to murder
> > prisoners accused of sexual crimes.
> >
> > Epstein was accused of trafficking: bringing people long distances on
> > false pretenses and then pressured them into sex or prostitution. He
> > also reportedly raped some of those people. I believe those accusations,
> > and I think he deserved to be imprisoned.
> >
> > Some of his victims were legally adult. Some were teenage minors. I
> > don't think that makes any moral difference. I don't think rape is less
> > wrong if the victim is over 16.
>
> as well as other posts on that same webpage, I see a consistent objection
> to rape regardless of the age of the victim, and I see public contrition
> for changing a view he held which he now views as wrong. Had we followed
> your censorious recommendations back then (to either "shut up" or to "get
> a
> female FSF colleague to censor all his comments pertaining to women before
> these comments go public") we might not have been able to read
>
> https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong)
> today and we'd lack any principled claim on free speech.
>
> Those who choose to conflate Stallman's views with those of the FSF or the
> GNU Project seem to me to be either making a mistake in that conflation or
> be opportunistic (possibly virtue signaling).
>
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