Re: Support RMS

[Danny Spitzberg]

   Thomas, you keep using the word “lies” to refer testimonies in this
   thread from former FSF staff.

   Do you mean to say that these people are all lying?

   Also, more importantly, are you implying that Paul and Aaron and Deb
   and every proposal for a path forward is all... bad?

   On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 11:11 AM Thomas Lord <[1]lord@basiscraft.com>
   wrote:

     Yes.  Every "movement"-type organization I have ever associated with
     goes through period of time when people come and try to divide and
     conquer, drumming up false complaints, trying to impose new rules
     that
     will, gosh, give themselves power over others,  trying to discredit
     the
     most effective movement members.
     This is no different - we are just getting endless repetition of the
     same accusations that don't stand up to scrutiny.
     It is the people spreading those lies who distract us from hacking
     for
     liberation and teaching others why software freedom matters and how
     they
     can help create it.   Hopefully, after yet another of their failures
     to
     sustain a case, some of them will find the door and find something
     else
     to do.
     -t
     On 2021-03-26 11:00, Ali Reza Hayati wrote:
     > So basically some people are claiming RMS helped to set up a union
     to
     > protect people from himself and that's one reason not to support
     RMS.
     >
     > You guys are making me support him more.
     >
     > On March 26, 2021 5:51:57 PM UTC, Thomas Lord
     <[2]lord@basiscraft.com>
     > wrote:
     >> "It is union to try to protect people from RMS. / That's it.
     That's
     >> the
     >> reason."
     >>
     >> As a matter of history that is simply and purely a lie.
     >>
     >> I don't see any of that kind of complaint, at this point, as
     anything
     >> less or more than direct attempts to sabotage the FSF, the FSM,
     and
     >> GNU.
     >>    It has no place here.  You are free not to associate with the
     FSF
     >> and you should, it would seem, take that option.
     >>
     >> -t
     >>
     >> On 2021-03-26 10:46, Danny Spitzberg wrote:
     >>
     >>> A union certainly helped everyone set and keep healthy
     boundaries. I
     >>> have no doubt RMS was supportive. Like Paul suggested, a set of
     >>> community agreements or a code of conduct or a contributor
     covenant
     >>> or whatever is generally a good thing.
     >>>
     >>> But as for the reason why staff organized the union -- you may
     call
     >>> it silly, but here is the testimony in their own words:
     >>>
     >>> " I think that many people do not know that the FSF is a union
     shop,
     >>> or why.
     >>>
     >>> It is union to try to protect people from RMS.
     >>>
     >>> That's it. That's the reason.
     >>>
     >>> Knowing some of the story about how this came to be, it really
     >>> informed my own thinking about what a union can do, and can't
     do.
     >>>
     >>> Unionizing provided protections and standard benefits (like
     >>> berievement leave) for workers at FSF. It could not remove RMS
     from a
     >>> position of power.
     >>>
     >>> I think the issue for workers at the time was that RMS held
     unchecked
     >>> authority. It did not matter that there was a board of FSF: you
     could
     >>> not tell RMS what to do.
     >>>
     >>> Using the power that the law provides to force negotiations on a
     >>> written contract was the only option.
     >>>
     >>> That is just... Not normal. Right?"
     >>>
     >>> From
     >>> [3]https://twitter.com/_msw_/status/1374538607982088197
     >>>
     >>> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 10:40 AM Thomas Lord
     <[4]lord@basiscraft.com>
     >>> wrote:
     >>>
     >>> That's silly.  The FSF was unionized with the encouragement and
     >>> support of the FSF executives and board, including RMS, because
     >>> unions are good, at least while the injustice of wage labor
     still
     >>> exists.
     >>>
     >>>> he also caused harm to people and to the FSF organization and
     the
     >>>> free software movement.
     >>>
     >>> I regard that as a straight up lie because none of the
     derogatory
     >>> things said about him have supported that conclusion.
     >>>
     >>> Once again,  you are free not to associate with the FSF or the
     >>> movement, but pretending to be an ally while repeating slanders
     >>> should not be tolerated here or anywhere.
     >>>
     >>> -t
     >>>
     >>> On 2021-03-26 10:32, Danny Spitzberg wrote:
     >>> Consider the fact that several FSF staff are going public for
     having
     >>> organized and joined a union in order to protect themselves
     against
     >>> the whims and wills of RMS, like if he suddenly decided to take
     away
     >>> health insurance for everyone or other workplace dysfunction.
     >>>
     >>> Forming a union and finally talking about it isn't
     "whistleblowing"
     >>> because obviously the staff and board chose to contain the
     problem
     >>> rather than solve or eliminate it.
     >>>
     >>> However, I think we can agree that it's compelling nonetheless
     and
     >>> adds to the view that while RMS contributed good things, he also
     >>> caused harm to people and to the FSF organization and the free
     >>> software movement.
     >>>
     >>> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 10:25 AM Thomas Lord
     <[5]lord@basiscraft.com>
     >>> wrote: It's wrong to describe people as "whistle blowers" when
     they
     >>> have not produced a complaint that stands up to scrutiny.
     >>>
     >>> -t
     >>>
     >>> On 2021-03-26 08:54, Aaron Wolf wrote:
     >>>> I really appreciate seeing the perspective from Georgia. Thanks
     also
     >>>> deeply to Deb Nicholson for engaging here in this space.
     Obviously,
     >>>> these negative reports about RMS being presented *here* amounts
     to
     >>>> the
     >>>> opposite of an echo-chamber. These voices are bring extremely
     >>>> valuable
     >>>> perspective -- the sort we *lose* if we aren't careful to
     assure
     >>>> that
     >>>> our
     >>>> spaces are not only open to anyone but actually in *practice*
     have
     >>>> them
     >>>> feel welcome and stay.
     >>>>
     >>>> The Free Software movement is weaker for every loss of
     perspective.
     >>>> We
     >>>> have a duty to be not only gracious but appreciative of people
     like
     >>>> Deb
     >>>> for engaging and staying with us despite the tensions.
     >>>>
     >>>> Georgia's line is exceptionally important: "...the fact that he
     >>>> faced
     >>>> consequences for his creepy Epdtein-adjacent comments and not
     the
     >>>> decades of shitty behavior..."
     >>
     >>>>>
     >>>>> These are not people who are dogpiling on hearsay or gotcha
     online
     >>>>> statements or whatever else. Those anti-patterns do indeed
     happen,
     >>>>> and
     >>>>> they polluted and harmed the credibility of the recent open
     letter
     >>>>> against RMS. But here we have people who fully understand the
     >>>>> unfairness
     >>>>> and yet can express from extensive personal experience the
     *actual*
     >>>>> reasons why RMS's leadership is problematic.
     >>>>>
     >>>>> As someone who deeply and profoundly respects RMS for various
     >>>>> reasons,
     >>>>> I
     >>>>> still don't just simply support his leadership role. I do not
     want
     >>>>> him
     >>>>> banished, I want him to learn and do better on his pain
     points. I
     >>>>> don't
     >>>>> want to be naive though, efforts in this direction have
     obviously
     >>>>> been
     >>>>> done for years and not been enough.
     >>>>>
     >>>>> I would like to continue to get RMS' insightful and pointed
     >>>>> perspectives
     >>>>> without having him lead the organization. I would like him to
     live
     >>>>> in
     >>>>> the zone where his genius most thrives and he contributes the
     most,
     >>>>> and
     >>>>> I suggest that the other roles he has had would be better
     filled by
     >>>>> others.
     >>>>>
     >>>>> If we want a resilient movement, we need to be really open to
     >>>>> engaging
     >>>>> with complaints. An organization that defends the status quo
     >>>>> against
     >>>>> such critics is like the NSA attacking Ed Snowden and people
     >>>>> insinuating
     >>>>> that Snowden is working for Russia (similar to people talking
     about
     >>>>> how
     >>>>> Deb now works for the OSI and the OSI is connected to
     >>>>> corporations).
     >>>>>
     >>>>> I'm not suggesting deference to the outside unfair critics,
     the
     >>>>> people
     >>>>> who do indeed levy unfair attacks, mine quotes, spread FUD,
     etc.
     >>>>> That
     >>>>> stuff can be real, and we need to defend against it.
     >>>>>
     >>>>> But people like Deb are our whistleblowers, they are insiders
     who
     >>>>> are
     >>>>> bringing attention to serious issues. If we ignore or attack
     >>>>> whistleblowers, we will fail to learn important lessons. This
     >>>>> attitude
     >>>>> can be fatal to a movement.
     >>>>>
     >>>>> In solidarity,
     >>>>> Aaron Wolf
     >>>>> (FSF member since 2014, co-founder of Snowdrift.coop)
     >>>>>
     >>>>>
     >>>>>
     >>>>> _______________________________________________
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     >>>>
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References

   1. mailto:lord@basiscraft.com
   2. mailto:lord@basiscraft.com
   3. https://twitter.com/_msw_/status/1374538607982088197
   4. mailto:lord@basiscraft.com
   5. mailto:lord@basiscraft.com
   6. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   7. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
   8. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   9. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss