Re: big picture stuff (was re: widget)

[Matthew Itkin]

On Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:43:26 -0500
"Danny P." <address@hidden> wrote:

> >It sounds like what we're looking for is some way for the machines > to
> >communicate groups of parameters. As in,
> >
> >Params 0-3 are in group "foo"
> >Params 4-7 in group "bar"
> 
> 
> Frikken good idea! Collapsable frames that host music-centered UI controls 
> will kick ass.
> 
> 

I dont know why you think this would be helpfull.  I have never seen a Buzz 
machine with too many paramaters.  Even if the pattern view is wider than my 
screen, the paramater view always fits nicely on my screen and lets me view all 
my paramaters at once.  I find that convenient and easy.  Collapsable frames 
would just clutter it up with little collapse buttons and expand buttons.  I 
have no problems scrolling left and right to get to other columns in the 
pattern editor either.  Its easier to scroll left and right than it is to grab 
the mouse and click "collapse" and "restore" buttons.

I think for the GUI we should move away from mouse-based concepts.  This is a 
tracker-style program, not a graphics app.  You have to do so much with the 
keyboard already.  You want to reach for your mouse as little as possible.

> 
> This has got to be done!!!
> 
> 
> >(I am already looking into details on Windows 2000 ports.)
> 
> 
> You can't lose...
> 
> This is going to be good :)
> 
> I was wondering if other people had the same problem as me with buzz. I 
> often find buzz's GUI controls and tracking-like editor for effects to be 
> extremely restrictive. If there were areas in the app to provide 
> scripting-like functionality (like a text editor to write a python script to 
> control an effect depending on timing or other events), that would seriously 
> rock!

How is it restrictive?  You can control all of the paramaters of the machine 
from within the pattern editor, which makes a lot more sense than using another 
scripting language to control these paramaters.  You can do sweeps, fades, etc. 
just by knowing what paramaters you want to control and interpolating between 
values or just putting in the values manually.  You have a lot more control 
than could be gained easily through Python or any other scripting language.  If 
you want to trigger something at a specific event, put a pattern at the same 
place as that specific event.

A lot of people have problem's with Buzz's interface, but after spending a lot 
of time with Buzz I've realized that its GUI makes a lot of sense.  Almost 
every aspect of it is extremely well thought out and I have a hard time 
thinking of a way to design it that would be more efficient.  It might be a 
little less intuitive than say CuBase, but its a whole $#!7load more flexible.

> 
> I've been playing with python for a while and it is an extremely cool 
> scripting language. It would be possible to access the OX_API and some 
> timing/control functions to python by swigging the c code (which allows it 
> to access the c library as if it were a native python module). You could 
> then embed python into octal and be able to script triggers and other things 
> like that.

Why would you possibly want to script triggers when you could just make 
patterns of triggers and put those down?  Then if you wanted to change the 
triggers, add more triggers, or just edit the pattern at all, you wouldnt have 
to mess with a script.  You could just edit the pattern.  Isnt that the whole 
point of the pattern editor?  Im all about using code to make sounds, but not 
to place them.

> 
> Swig also supports perl, ruby and more. I'm extremely exhausted and cannot 
> provide a lot more examples of the uses of this, but I'm sure others can.
> 
> Even if you guys do not agree, I will do it anyways :) Free software is 
> funky ;)

Yeah, you can do it, but it likely wont be included in the core distribution of 
OCTAL unless it adds some real functionality that cant be obtained through the 
pattern editor.  If the pattern editor is anything like Buzz's, I can't see how 
you really could.  Still, feel free to expand upon your idea on the DEV list.  
Maybe I am just not sure exactly how you plan to use scripts in OCTAL.

-Matthew Itkin