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Re: [Swarm-Modelling] Something Glen said


From: Steven H. Rogers
Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] Something Glen said
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:21:08 -0700
User-agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (X11/20061025)



glen e. p. ropella wrote:
Steven H. Rogers wrote:
Rob Bowers wrote:
So is it the opinion of the Swarm community that a new user would be
better off investing in Repast?

No.  While Repast is useful for some environments, and the use of Python
for
some things is interesting, I believe the Swarm/Objective-C is a better
foundation for future ABM work than Java or .NET, at least for me.  If
you're already a Java or C# programmer and have an aversion to learning
Objective-C, Repast becomes more interesting.

While I agree that there is not a consensus opinion that a new user
would be better off investing in Repast.  _I_ hold that opinion for the
reasons already stated.  And I also agree that Objective-C (and Swarm's
idioms but not the current software) is a better foundation for future
ABM work than Java or .NET.

But, the current Swarm software is NOT a better foundation for future
ABM work.

I believe the difficulty in getting started with Swarm may have been
overstated.  Bearing in mind that I'm already a Linux user and have
programmed in many languages, I found it quite easy to get Swarm running on
my Sony laptop running Red Hat 9.  If I were beginning dissertation
research, I wouldn't hesitate to use it, as is.

For all of us programmers, Swarm is and always has been pretty easy to
install and use.  But, this is often not the case with people who want
to model something.  It all boils down to how much we have to _force_
modelers to learn in order to be competent modelers.  If a modeler hires
programmers, she has to learn to be a manager (or at least a competent
customer... a very rare thing ;-).  If a modeler decides to do it
herself, then she has to become a programmer.

Is that the way it _should_ be?  We didn't have the technology in 1996
to overcome those two issues.  Do we have it now?  Perhaps not.  But,
I'd like to think we _might_


Good questions. I believe that that technology exists to make modeling easier, though perhaps not as easy as you envision. Swarm installation could certainly be made simpler and more bullet proof. It would take some work and a lot of regression testing. The answer regarding ease of use may be that we _do_ have to force modelers to learn programming to become competent modelers just as physicists must learn mathematics.

Python or Ruby interfaces would make it easier for such modelers, but they'd still have to develop some programming competence if they want to develop arbitrary models. AgentSheets is impressively simple to use for the models that can be developed with it, but it's still programming.

As Marcus has pointed out, ease of modeling is only part of the problem. Simulation problems _are_ very often compute bound, so taking advantage of inexpensive parallel hardware like the PS3 is a worthwhile endeavor.

Regards,
Steve


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