Re: [VM] Info node "External Messages"

[Alan Wehmann]

I'll continue in evidence-based mode and take a slightly different
tack.  In Thunderbird I removed the size limitation of 50K for
synchronization.  Then the Thunderbird synchronization file has a
Dired entry as shown below:

>   c:/Documents and Settings/Alan/Application 
> Data/Thunderbird/Profiles/qn5qd3de.default/ImapMail/email.fnal.gov:
>   -rw-rw-rw-  1 Alan None 162119 04-07 20:56 INBOX

It has grown in size to 162119.  Prior to doing this, my previous
email (Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 14:54:11 -0500) had reported for that
Dired entry:

>   c:/Documents and Settings/Alan/Application 
> Data/Thunderbird/Profiles/qn5qd3de.default/ImapMail/email.fnal.gov:
>   -rw-rw-rw-  1 Alan None  43765 04-07 13:43 INBOX

I can make VM parse the "INBOX" file (the Thunderbird synchronization
file) by doing two things:

1) Evaluate '(setq vm-leading-message-separator-regexp-From_ "^From[^:]")'

2) Make sure that the "From" line that starts each message is preceded by a
blank line

The resulting Summary buffer (for "INBOX") is:

> ->  1  N    Dick Carrigan     Mar  7   36/1573   "Next quarterly lunch 
> Wednesday, April 11 [retired scientist list]"
>     2  N    address@hidden  Mar 16   15/375    "LIBRARY - You borrowed this 
> book"
>     3  N    Dick Carrigan     Apr  6   91/3729   "Next quarterly lunch 
> Wednesday, April 11 [retired scientist list]"
>     4  N    Mark Messier      Apr  7  137/6457   "Fwd: LBNE Reconfiguration: 
> webpage and workshop (April 25-26)"
>     5  N    WinZip Computing  Apr  5  293/15111  "Type 3X Faster with Your 
> Voice - 50% Off Dragon"
>     6  N    Fermilab Today    Apr  6 1811/113630  "Fermilab Today - Friday, 
> April 6"

The entry in the buffer generated by the command "buffer-menu" for
"INBOX" is:

>  %* INBOX               162922  VM              c:/Documents and 
> Settings/Alan/Application 
> Data/Thunderbird/Profiles/qn5qd3de.default/ImapMail/email.fnal.gov/INBOX

This can be compared to the Summary buffer (for file "inbox"):

>     1  U    Dick Carrigan     Mar  7   37/5605   "Next quarterly lunch 
> Wednesday, April 11 [retired scientist list]"
>     2       address@hidden  Mar 16   16/2025   "LIBRARY - You borrowed this 
> book"
>     3       Dick Carrigan     Apr  6   91/7806   "Next quarterly lunch 
> Wednesday, April 11 [retired scientist list]"
> ->  4       Mark Messier      Apr  7  137/10825  "Fwd: LBNE Reconfiguration: 
> webpage and workshop (April 25-26)"
>     5  U    WinZip Computing  Apr  5  293/17469  "Type 3X Faster with Your 
> Voice - 50% Off Dragon"
>     6       Fermilab Today    Apr  6    0/113632  "Fermilab Today - Friday, 
> April 6"

where "buffer-menu" gives:

>  %  inbox                49639  VM              
> ~/mail_rmail/imap-cache-d0925bcceba88ad7703984efcad1f482

I can do "compare-windows" (with a prefix, to ignore whitespace
differences) and compare the presentation buffers in each case.  They
compare equal for the first four messages.  For the fifth message the
presentation buffer shows:

> From: WinZip Computing <address@hidden>
> To: <address@hidden>
> Subject: Type 3X Faster with Your Voice - 50% Off Dragon
> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 12:23:07 -0400
> 
> 

in each case.  In Thunderbird, for that message, much more is shown.

For the sixth message the *Messages* buffer said for "INBOX":

> INBOX: Decoding MIME message...
> INBOX: Inlining text/html by emacs-w3m...
> WARNING: Could not load feature w3m.
> WARNING: Related functions may not work correctly!
> INBOX: Inline text/html by emacs-w3m display failed: Symbol's value as 
> variable is void: w3m-cid-retrieve-function-alist
> INBOX: Decoding MIME message... done

For the sixth message, for "inbox", I was asked for the password for
"fermi_email:inbox" and the *Messages* buffer said:

> Warning: No user-definable flags available for the IMAP mailbox
> Retrieving message 1 (of 1) from fermi_email:inbox, 38%...
> Retrieving message 1 (of 1) from fermi_email:inbox, 41%...
> Retrieving message 1 (of 1) from fermi_email:inbox, 65%...
> inbox: Decoding MIME message...
> inbox: Inlining text/html by emacs-w3m...
> WARNING: Could not load feature w3m.
> WARNING: Related functions may not work correctly!
> inbox: Inline text/html by emacs-w3m display failed: Symbol's value as 
> variable is void: w3m-cid-retrieve-function-alist
> inbox: Recreating summary... done
> inbox: Decoding MIME message... done
> 

and the summary buffer line became:

> ->  6       Fermilab Today    Apr  6 1812/113632  "Fermilab Today - Friday, 
> April 6"

This time around the relevant VM variables are (again, from the
*scratch* buffer):

> (format "%s\n%s\n %s\n%s\n%s\n"
>   vm-primary-inbox
>   vm-imap-account-alist
>   vm-enable-external-messages
>   vm-imap-max-message-size
>   vm-imap-sync-on-get)
> "~/INBOX
> ((imap:localhost:143:*:login:wehmann:* fermi_email))
>  (imap)
> 50000
> nil
> "
> 

One can note that this time "vm-primary-inbox" is different from what
I reported in my email earlier today, (Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 14:54:11
-0500).  At that time I had customized "vm-primary-inbox" for just
that VM session and now it is back to the saved customization value.
In this case "~/INBOX" should not be confused with "INBOX" above, since
they are in different directories.  File "~/INBOX" is what I have been
using with a Yahoo POP server.  It was also used in a VM session on
April 4, when I was using the IMAP inbox as a spool file.

As for the size numbers being different on the Summary buffers for
"INBOX" and "inbox", that I assume is because "inbox" has attributes
saved in it and "INBOX" does not.

As a further test, I added another large message to the IMAP inbox
folder.  The Dired entry for "INBOX" became:

>   -rw-rw-rw-  1 Alan None 387242 04-07 22:32 INBOX

Its Summary buffer became:

> ->  1  N    Dick Carrigan     Mar  7   36/1573   "Next quarterly lunch 
> Wednesday, April 11 [retired scientist list]"
>     2  N    address@hidden  Mar 16   15/375    "LIBRARY - You borrowed this 
> book"
>     3  N    Dick Carrigan     Apr  6   91/3729   "Next quarterly lunch 
> Wednesday, April 11 [retired scientist list]"
>     4  N    Mark Messier      Apr  7  137/6457   "Fwd: LBNE Reconfiguration: 
> webpage and workshop (April 25-26)"
>     5  N    WinZip Computing  Apr  5  293/15111  "Type 3X Faster with Your 
> Voice - 50% Off Dragon"
>     6  N    Fermilab Today    Apr  6 1811/113631  "Fermilab Today - Friday, 
> April 6"
>     7       Fermilab Today    Apr  5 3123/218957  "Fermilab Today - Thursday, 
> April 5"
> 

(after making sure that there was a blank line ahead of each "From"
line--as before).

In the "inbox" buffer I did the command "vm-get-new-mail".  After a
significant delay it did so and the Summary buffer became:

> ->  1  U    Dick Carrigan     Mar  7   37/5605   "Next quarterly lunch 
> Wednesday, April 11 [retired scientist list]"
>     2       address@hidden  Mar 16   16/2025   "LIBRARY - You borrowed this 
> book"
>     3       Dick Carrigan     Apr  6   91/7806   "Next quarterly lunch 
> Wednesday, April 11 [retired scientist list]"
>     4       Mark Messier      Apr  7  137/10825  "Fwd: LBNE Reconfiguration: 
> webpage and workshop (April 25-26)"
>     5       WinZip Computing  Apr  5  293/17469  "Type 3X Faster with Your 
> Voice - 50% Off Dragon"
>     6       Fermilab Today    Apr  6 1812/113632  "Fermilab Today - Friday, 
> April 6"
>     7       Fermilab Today    Apr  5    0/225037  "Fermilab Today - Thursday, 
> April 5"
> 

when I stepped to message 7 in the Summary buffer, more was fetched
from the IMAP server and the "inbox" Summary buffer became:

>     1  U    Dick Carrigan     Mar  7   37/5605   "Next quarterly lunch 
> Wednesday, April 11 [retired scientist list]"
>     2       address@hidden  Mar 16   16/2025   "LIBRARY - You borrowed this 
> book"
>     3       Dick Carrigan     Apr  6   91/7806   "Next quarterly lunch 
> Wednesday, April 11 [retired scientist list]"
>     4       Mark Messier      Apr  7  137/10825  "Fwd: LBNE Reconfiguration: 
> webpage and workshop (April 25-26)"
>     5       WinZip Computing  Apr  5  293/17469  "Type 3X Faster with Your 
> Voice - 50% Off Dragon"
>     6       Fermilab Today    Apr  6 1812/113632  "Fermilab Today - Friday, 
> April 6"
> ->  7       Fermilab Today    Apr  5 3124/218959  "Fermilab Today - Thursday, 
> April 5"
> 

I can emphasize the following conclusions from this evidence:

1) Thunderbird is synchronizing a file on my computer's hard drive,
matching the contents of the IMAP inbox folder.

2) The setting of 50000 for "vm-imap-max-message-size" is working.
Messages in excess of that size are having only their headers
downloaded, when "vm-get-new-mail" is used.  The full message is
downloaded if I choose it in the Summary buffer.

3) It is possible to have VM parse the Thunderbird synchronization
file (local on my hard drive), but it involves a bit of trickery.

My experience on April 4 (when I was using the IMAP inbox folder as a
spool file), of being asked a) if I wanted to download each large file
(answer no), and then being asked b) if I wanted to delete it from the
"maildrop" (answer yes . . . bad choice, bad choice, bad choice) has
me wondering about the design of those questions.  It seems to me
rather odd to ask me if I want to delete a large message if I haven't
even looked at it (with VM).

Cheers,
Alan

Uday Reddy writes:
 > To: address@hidden
 > Subject: Re: [VM] Info node "External Messages"
 > Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 21:26:22 +0100
 > From: Uday Reddy <address@hidden>
 > 
 > Alan Wehmann writes:
 > 
 > > One reason to show how it starts off is to illustrate that the first
 > > line is not recognized by the value of
 > > "vm-leading-message-separator-regexp-From_"
 > 
 > You can't read Thunderbird's IMAP folders in VM, only the Local Folders.
 > (In fact, you can see from the size of the file that it is not a full folder
 > anyway.) 
 > 
 > > >     6       Fermilab Today    Apr  6    0/113632  "Fermilab Today - 
 > > > Friday, April 6"
 > > 
 > > For message #6 there is no indication that it was left on the server
 > > because of being over-sized.
 > 
 > The "0" in the size indicator (presumably 0 lines?) tells you that the
 > message wasn't downloaded.  What happens if you try to read the message 6? 
 > 
 > > I was not asked any question about whether or not I wished to download
 > > message #6, nor was I asked any question about whether or not I wished
 > > to delete it from the "maildrop".
 > 
 > Indeed, that is how it is supposed to work.  It is designed to be painless.
 > 
 > If you delete message 6, expunge and save the folder, then message 6 will
 > get deleted on the server.
 > 
 > Cheers,
 > Uday

-- 
Alan Wehmann
address@hidden