Re: [linuxiran] Crossover Office Wanted!

[Aryan Ameri]

Sorry for top posting, but I am replying to many post, not just the one 
below.

With all due respect for everyone, I have to say that it seems everybody 
got their facts wrong here. I don't know where Arash got the impression 
that :

> company codeweaver made the initial
> version of wine and then branched it and gpl'ed that
> branch,

Because it is completely 100% wrong.

First of all, Code Weaver can make a proprietary version of Wine, 
because Wine is licensed under a BSD-like license. It would have been 
nice if one of you guys, all asuming that Wine is GPLed, would have 
checked wine's website, before debating "how code weavers can release a 
non-free product based upon open source code".

Here is a bit of a lesson guys:

we have two kinds sof Open Source licenses. Copyleft (i.e GPL) and not 
copyleft (ie MIT license and BSD license). The difference is that a 
copyleft license, only gives you the right to publish your derivative 
work, if you also publish it under the same license as the original 
license. LGPL, GPL, QPL (Qt Public License) are all copyleft licenses. 
You can't make a proprietary version of a product, based upon these 
versions; everything, based on them, should also have the same license. 

On the other hand, we have non-Copyleft license, like the license of 
Xfree86, the license of Apache, the MIT license the BSD license, and so 
on. These licenses simply give you the right to do anything with the 
code. You can make a modifid version of these code, and publish it 
under any circumstance you like. Some of these license (the old BSD) 
required derivative work to at least give credit to original 
developers. Most of them however (including the new BSD, and MIT 
licenses) do not even require you to give credits. So basicaly, they 
give you the right to hijack their code. It's up to you, to do whatever 
you want wih them, you can open source your modified code, or you can 
release it as completely proprietary. 

So, even me and my dog, can download a version of wine, change it's name 
to Wine-Dog, and sell it to you for $2000 without ever giving you any 
code. However, if you like to buy that thing, then I also have a bridg, 
which you might be interested in...

And this is how, Microsoft can legaly rip the TCP/IP stack of Free BSD, 
and use it in windows 2000/Xp, without ever telling it to anyone.

Also of note, Code weavers did not initialy make Wine. The wine project 
was started in 1992, way before there ever was a company called code 
weavers. In 1999, this code weavers company came, and hired many Wine 
developers, and a couple of years later, they made a proprietary 
version of Wine, and called in Cross Over Office. This code wevaers is 
actualy a very nice company, they sometimes give back their 
contributions to the Wine project, and open source some of their code 
(even though they do not have to), and basicaly, they do a very good 
job of supporting wine, financialy. However, there are other companies, 
which are making wine based products. For example, there is this 
company called TransGaming, which develops WineX, which lets users play 
many Windows games (they released a new version of WineX today). but 
transgaming unlike Code weavers, does not give any of it's code as open 
course, and does not support the wine project. It's their choice. 

So, the situation, is as far as it can be, from OpenOffice/StarOffice.

And about GPL and this you can't take it back stuff, it is not about 
just GPL, it applies to any copyright license. Once you give someone 
some rights, then you can't take them back. period. For example, once 
you release a program under GPL, then, that version of the program will 
be under GPL for ever. However, YOU can make future versions of your 
program, under any license you want, because YOU are the copyright 
owner. But, if someone else decides to modify your GPL program, then 
they should release the modifications under the same terms (GPL). 

This actualy ahappend a couple of months ago. The founder of Nullsoft 
(the creator of Winamp) made a software for distributed p2p, or 
something like that (I forgot the name now) and released the software 
under GPL. 4 days later AOL (parent company of Nullsoft) decided that 
they didn't like releaseing that program under GPL, and removed it from 
their web site. But it was no use, there were already mirros of the 
program all over the net, and AOL could do nothing about it.

But if you release your program under a non-copyleft license, then I can 
do anything with it, I might even improve it, and not give my 
improvements to you.

This also has happened. The early versions of Emacs  which run on ITS 
operating system were given "free as it is, do what ever you want with 
them". Then RMS decided to port Emacs to Unix, and saw that a respected 
scholar in the university of Berekely has already ported Emacs to Unix. 
He decided not to reinvent the wheel, and use his code. He asked for 
his code, and the guy didn't give him his code. That was when RMS 
decided to create the GPL, with it's copyleft concept.


Ah! and again, I am writing this long. Didn't someone tell me to not 
bother with writing these long useless emails, and instead focus on th 
more important stuf? Yeah, well, the answer to that friend is: you see, 
I can't. Once I start writing, then it goes on. It is actualy the same 
in my speaing, once I start speaking, I can't stop it!

Cheers everyone

On Wednesday 19 November 2003 16:18, Arash Partow wrote:
> because the company codeweaver made the initial
> version of wine and then branched it and gpl'ed that
> branch, they have copyright over the original work
> and derivative works excluding wine and any other
> s/w they have gpl'ed which has been worked on after
> they gpl'ed.
>
> However they have to right to withdraw their "own"
> gpl'ed at anytime.
>
> its the same issue with staroffice and openoffice.
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Be one who knows what they don't know,
> Instead of being one who knows not what they don't know,
> Thinking they know everything about all things.
> http://www.partow.net
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Faridb" <address@hidden>
> To: "GNU/Linux in Iran" <address@hidden>
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [linuxiran] Crossover Office Wanted!
>
> > --- Zoup <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > crossover is not free ;)
> > >
> > > --
> > > It's a poor workman who blames his tools.
> >
> > I know itÅ> not free dude!
> > But I need it so badly to convince some of my
> > windoze-lover friends to migrate to this little cool
> > ...
> > I couldn´t find it neither in p2p nor any other
> > place!( maybe I didn´t search enough though!)
> > But there must a linux software center in Tehran( at
> > least I hope so)
> >
> > By the way if it´s been derived from Wine , how come
> > it´s not open source?(correct me if I´m wrong)
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
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> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
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-- 
/*  "Every gun that is made, every warship launched,
every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a
theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those
 who are cold and are not clothed."*/
                --President Eisenhower

Aryan Ameri