Re: "modern" colors Re: Changes for emacs 28

[Ergus]

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 05:41:58PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 15:17:54 +0200
> > From: Ergus <spacibba@aol.com>
> > Cc: casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org,
> >         monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, ghe@sdf.org, tecosaur@gmail.com
> >
> > >If F10 is intercepted, perhaps we should also bind the command to
> > >another key?  That's a simple and backward-compatible change.
> > >
> > I have discussed this with Stefan already and there are some small
> > backward compatible changes we can do here because usually F10 is
> > intercepted by gnome, toggle guake, gnome-terminal menu or tmux before
> > arriving to emacs.
> >
> > Some of the (non exclusive) options are:
> >
> > 1) Bind it also to another key
>
> This is what I had in mind.
Of course, this is the first to do in any case. Do you have any binding
in mind?

> > 2) Show the binding somewhere (in the same bar or modeline) when
> > xterm-mouse-mode is disabled.
>
> I don't see how xterm-mouse-mode is relevant: we are not talking about
> the mouse, and TTY menus work without a mouse as well.
Ex: in gnome-terminal (which captures the F10) and with xterm-mouse-mode
disabled it is almost impossible to access the menu (unless throw
M-x but then the user can type the commands without needing the
menubar).

So it is there basically stilling space because there is no way to
access it.

> > 3) Underline the letter in the menus that "opens" each menu from the
> > keyboard (as some Windows applications do)
>
> How will that help?
With a disabled xterm-mouse-mode a first timer user doesn't know how to
open the menu-bar, even its name. It will be specially useful to give
some hints.

Menubar is specially useful for beginners; lets say the fist step to
start doing the basics. Being inaccessible gives the same experience
than a first time user trying to exit vim.

> > 4) Enable xterm-mouse-mode by default in more situations as most of the
> > popular terminal emulators are xterm compatible (gnome-term, xterm,
> > konsole, rxvt, guake, terminator)
>
> Again, xterm-mouse-mode is an orthogonal issue.

I know. This were general points we mentioned about why some people
found useless the menubar and used to remove it.