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Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs
From: |
Colin Baxter |
Subject: |
Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs |
Date: |
Tue, 22 Sep 2020 18:50:31 +0100 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) |
>>>>> Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:
> On September 22, 2020 12:59:38 PM UTC, Ergus <spacibba@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 08:19:58PM +0300, Jean Louis wrote:
>>> * Ergus <spacibba@aol.com> [2020-09-20 03:45]:
>>>> There have been too many years of licences nobody reads and
>>>> msoffice
>> useless splash. So people now install the programs just pressing
>> next next next accept.
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that 90% of the cases the information there is
>>>> pretty
>> useless (publicity, license, offers for an account) so most
>> people assume that in our case it will be the same and usually
>> ignores that.
>>>
>>> I am not sure how you come to seach information, as it is very
>>> general. I could present Emacs to various people and see if they
>>> have read the splash screen, and then after 5 or 10 attempts, I
>>> could have statistics, who read what, if they found that there
>>> is Tutorial or not, or what else they remembered and if they
>>> have read the splash page.
>>>
>>> With 100 people in the test, such information would be valuable
>>> statistics.
>>>
>>
>>> Without mass of people tested randomly, it is harder to say that
>> splash
>>> is useless for people because it was maybe useless for one
>>> msoffice user.
>>>
>>> I can speak for myself, as it is hard to speak for others, so I
>>> know that I was reading licenses of proprietary software before
>>> 1999, and I know that I was reading everything that Emacs had to
>>> offer, from splash screen, Tutorials in few languages, and GNU
>>> news and anything else, I did read it, and that is how I got
>>> fascinated with the free software.
>>>
>> So you are probably more the exception than the rule. As you can
>> see nobody these days reads the licenses anymore, not even the
>> tutorials
> I am only asking you to be specific, like from where exactly do
> you draw that information they majority of nobody reads licenses?
> Is there a survey result whereby at least 1000 people have been
> asked if they have read the license or tutorial and in which
> specific area for which specific group of people?
> I know that in Germany we, and I mean my free friends, have been
> reading license as we were concerned what we can do with
> proprietary software, if we can make copy for ourselves and if we
> were allowed to share our install on multiple computers, and later
> me and my close friends discovered GNU derived distributions and
> became happy that license now allowed us. I can speak for few
> close people that I know. And in organization that I worked, the
> licensing was very much controlled, as we did not want to shift
> anyone's rights.
> As teenager I was clicking through licenses and used warez and
> whatever I could without paying any license and reading such.
> I do not know you, I am 47, what is your age?
> I don't know if by saying that nobody reads licenses you refer to
> nobody teenager interested to play games, or you refer to
> Tanzanian student who will not care of any license because there
> will be no enforcement, or you refer to average German trader who
> needs software professionally.
> I know how to make a survey and how to evaluate a survey results,
> and if none was made, even if it was made, days shall be based on
> such survey.
>> I just say that nobody knows what is written in the license or
>> the splash screen. Consider also that most of the people in the
>> world are nor English speakers > either.
> I know you write that but I don't see fusion of such a
> statement. Did you count number of people not reading licenses and
> how that was measured, what group of people and in which
> geographic locations?
> Without proper survey result, I don't share your opinion, just
> contrary, I know that today there is more free software then ever,
> and speaking from German and of good knowledge of Western European
> part of the world, I know that those people introduced to free
> software were especially interested in licensing terms.
> As a speaker on seminars about GNU/Linux systems, attendees in
> Stuttgart Mediothek, were interested in licensing terms and felt
> liberated, and I can say they probably read licenses, but I have
> not controlled them, as a speaker, from their questions I know
> they were interested.
As I understand things, the "E" in emacs is for extensible. If something
is extensible then I suggest there exists an initial zero-extension
state. I further suggest that that state is characterised by the absent
of a .emacs file (or equivalent). Therefore emacs needs no .emacs to
work. I very much agree with what Jean Louis has written about this.
I know very little about emacs having only used it for 20+ years. (That
is a serious observation, not a joke.) For the first five years I knew
nothing about a .emacs file and used emacs happily to edit tex and
fortran files. I did read the licenses and became intrigued by something
called free software.
My point is emacs is a journey for many of us and I think my journey
would have begun on the wrong foot if I had been told what to do by a
"wizard". If you really want to sell emacs to new users, tell them about
this journey and tell them they will have adventures - but let them find
the adventures themselves.
Best wishes,
Colin Baxter
URL: http://www.Colin-Baxter.com
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Since mathematicians have invaded the theory of relativity, I do not
understand it myself. A. Einstein
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, (continued)
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Ergus, 2020/09/20
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Eli Zaretskii, 2020/09/20
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Ergus, 2020/09/20
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Jean Louis, 2020/09/22
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Ergus, 2020/09/22
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Jean Louis, 2020/09/22
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs,
Colin Baxter <=
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Mingde (Matthew) Zeng, 2020/09/22
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Colin Baxter, 2020/09/22
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Alfred M. Szmidt, 2020/09/19
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Andrea Corallo, 2020/09/19
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Alfred M. Szmidt, 2020/09/20
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Andrea Corallo, 2020/09/19
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Philip K., 2020/09/19
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, 황병희, 2020/09/19
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Alfred M. Szmidt, 2020/09/17
- Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs, Nicholas Savage, 2020/09/17